Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

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mididoctors
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby mididoctors » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:38 pm

rayjay wrote:Why do people get so wound up about the issue of Riders doping in cycling . They have always done it .FACT.
Why is it that all you Sky fans seem to think Nibali doped, yet when we ask the same questions about Sky you take such offence? .


loads of us don't get involved in this shitstorm or at least only the periphery.

That said I think its inportant pressure is put on us all looking at the yellow jersey to make sure.

there are basically three options apart from sitting on the wall, which is where we are really because the truth is we do not know.

option one.You believe Sky Froome et al are clean

option two. You believe Sky/BC cycling are systematically doping the "ukpostals" option. Note just froome on the gear but with team knowledge counts as systemic

option three. You believe Riders in Sky are DIY doping without team knowledge or consent. As soon as the team management discovers it and do nothing it becomes option two.

of all of those option 3 strikes me as the most unlikely...the team would just find out and if they have then we are into the ukpostals. And that strikes me as very unlikely for political reasons. if DB is pulling a fast one he is going to be strung up by his gonads when it comes out..and cycling credibility will drop to a debilitating low.

the sponsors all over will walk.

road racing out the olympics and by association with BC the track as well.

its too crazy to contemplate that they are dirty..its this that makes me give them the sliver of doubt required.


the area of sky I have a problem with is the hypocrisy of taking on the zero tolerance policy then hiring rodgers who may well be clean now but etc... and the whole we didn't know thing is ridiculous! DB saying he was shocked to learn about Larry was disturbing because his sincerity was only just below his norm so lying is not off his agenda in my estimation

At least at Garmin they basically said "look we are a bunch of dopers and we are trying to do something about it".

the two areas of scandal I am guessing as most likely is Froome at Barloworld? or discovering that Sky are doing things that are not banned but should be... new forms of intervention that act like PEDS.. this switching off the brain response to physical exertion thing using ECT or some-such voodoo

Or they really have looked at the training and got it right... they are straight as a die. nutrition and weight control has come along heaps

VAM etc... I haven't seen good numbers argued well but would note that the numbers arguing that Lance doped were not questioned as much by the fanbois base as the explanations given here as to why froome is in a comparative league of his own.

personally from a Wild Ar5e Guessing spectators' POV cycling looks a lot less doped than I can remember including Froome
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ddraver
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby ddraver » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:41 pm

Dorset Boy wrote:Wasn't the last bend a hairpin? In that case Sherwin might be right that there was a headwind at the finish, but not the rest of the way up! :lol:


That is exactly what I'm assuming he did....
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby ddraver » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:43 pm

rayjay wrote:Very nice replys . You cannot say Gert Leinders is not evidence . He dopes riders for a living . Sky forgot to check his CV? come on. You look at previous results of Wiggo and Froome before Leinders joined Sky and they were no where at that levels they now achieve. They are not new riders. Ring a bell. Some very very fast times beating times set by doped riders . I think that is enough to ask questions . Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Ok - Go and find the thread on Leinders and read that, then read the rest of this thread about the times

The armstrong sentence is relevant only to your own emotional baggage...
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Rigged
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby Rigged » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:43 pm

The thing I'd really like to see is a list, a calendar or something of all the doping control Froome and the other big names in cycling have been subjected to in this season.

Even more interesting would be a comprehensive comparison of how doping control in cycling compares to the likes of athletics, football, american football etc.

Cycling has the reputation of being an exceptionally dirty sport, and understandably so given its history, but to my knowledge the level of testing in cycling is a decade ahead of that in many other sports. The media would do well to restore some parity to how cycling may or may not compare to other sports.

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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby No tA Doctor » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:44 pm

rayjay wrote:Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Aside from the back-dated TUE?

Tell you what, when you find some testimonies from people that have evidence that Sky doped (masseurs, mechanics, doctors, ex temamates, whatever), or even just the one, then you'll have a good point.
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby No tA Doctor » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:45 pm

Rigged wrote:Some stuff about drugs in other sports.


Agree, mainly.

Also - we wuz robbed in 2006!
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby emadden » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:45 pm

poppit wrote:Can someone explain, is fanboy/fanboi a derogatory term and something only Sky supporters can be called?



Not unique to Sky. Typically, (and thanks to Urban Dictionary for this):

a fanboy/fanboi is an extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.
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Rundfahrt
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby Rundfahrt » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:46 pm

No tA Doctor wrote:
Rundfahrt wrote:
No tA Doctor wrote:If i hear "people like you" "invested too much in their favorite riders" "waited so long for a British Champion" "just like uspostal fans" and the absolutely incredible "not allowed an opinion" one more time from Rundfahrt I swear I'm going to go completely f@cking postal.

We know your opinion, we've heard it over and over and over again. Far from not being allowed to have one, youve been allowed to post it a million times without the mods stepping in. but apparently you dont think were allowed to express the counter opinion that youre a nasty little troll with a poisonous agenda and a massive superiority complex. And when you're trying to caricature some of the most level headed sensible posters like Rich as blind fan boys incapable of reasonable debate it's clear you wouldn't know it if someone smacked you in the face with it. All attempts at reasoned discourse just meet the same crap.

Please, for the love of God, just go away. I've had stomach upsets that have been more pleasurable, and have offered more intelligent thought.


Some stuff about his martyrdom, completely lacking in self-reflection.


Pointless. Utterly, utterly pointless.

You join a very, very select blocked list.


I have always thought that one shows ones intelligence and maturity when one changes the post they quote to make it an insult and then announces they are blocking you...which usually ends up as a lie.

I have been staying away from the insult road that the Sky fans jump on immediately here but I will make this exception.

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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby emadden » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:52 pm

ddraver wrote:
Dorset Boy wrote:Wasn't the last bend a hairpin? In that case Sherwin might be right that there was a headwind at the finish, but not the rest of the way up! :lol:


That is exactly what I'm assuming he did....



Its not a full hairpin :lol: :lol: :lol: Its about a 120 degree turn as they go up the "drive way" to the station at the top, not the main road that is actually below it (that wouldve been 180 degrees and full hairpin). You can see it from the aerial shot on Google maps :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby emadden » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:54 pm

BTW... off topic I know.. but if you look at street view of the Ventoux summit, there are cyclists there and it looks like the middle of winter with all the snow... freaking nutters :-)
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby prawny » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:54 pm

emadden wrote:
poppit wrote:Can someone explain, is fanboy/fanboi a derogatory term and something only Sky supporters can be called?



Not unique to Sky. Typically, (and thanks to Urban Dictionary for this):

a fanboy/fanboi is an extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.



It's normally the complete opposite of that on here though.
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby ukg3pxc » Mon Jul 15, 2013 14:59 pm

Something i've not seen mentioned yet is the Jalabert effect

ie

Dope if you want but one day we're going to re-test those samples and find out what you did

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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby No tA Doctor » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:05 pm

prawny wrote:
emadden wrote:
poppit wrote:Can someone explain, is fanboy/fanboi a derogatory term and something only Sky supporters can be called?



Not unique to Sky. Typically, (and thanks to Urban Dictionary for this):

a fanboy/fanboi is an extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.



It's normally the complete opposite of that on here though.


It's a convenient and completely inaccurate put down.

There's a lot of lumping people into a nice little easily straw-mannable categories that goes on.
For the record, as I can remember Lucho V Millar, Hinault, Fignon, LeMond, Roche V Delgado etc I don't regard myself as a newcomer to the sport (another classic put down) and I've consistently maintained that I don't actually like Froome (never warmed to him, though the flak he's taken in this tour is rapidly changing that out of sympathy alone).

But hey, just call me a Sky fanboi noob and be done with it if that's the level if "debate".

See also "only X posts"...
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

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Steve Abraham's attempt at the year record

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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby Rundfahrt » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:06 pm

poppit wrote:Can someone explain, is fanboy/fanboi a derogatory term and something only Sky supporters can be called?


Looking through this forum I have seen it used more against people who are willing to question sky. I believe ddraver did it in this thread.

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mididoctors
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby mididoctors » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:07 pm

No tA Doctor wrote:
rayjay wrote:Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Aside from the back-dated TUE?

Tell you what, when you find some testimonies from people that have evidence that Sky doped (masseurs, mechanics, doctors, ex temamates, whatever), or even just the one, then you'll have a good point.



this

basically if there is dirt it will leak and given the hot house atmosphere surrounding the issue sooner rather than later
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby Rundfahrt » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:11 pm

mididoctors wrote:
No tA Doctor wrote:
rayjay wrote:Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Aside from the back-dated TUE?

Tell you what, when you find some testimonies from people that have evidence that Sky doped (masseurs, mechanics, doctors, ex temamates, whatever), or even just the one, then you'll have a good point.



this

basically if there is dirt it will leak and given the hot house atmosphere surrounding the issue sooner rather than later



Therein lies the issue some of us have with the Sky fans here. When something does come up the excuses and anger show up (a la USPS). See the hiring of Leinders as a great example.

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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby disgruntledgoat » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:11 pm

mididoctors wrote:
No tA Doctor wrote:
rayjay wrote:Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Aside from the back-dated TUE?

Tell you what, when you find some testimonies from people that have evidence that Sky doped (masseurs, mechanics, doctors, ex temamates, whatever), or even just the one, then you'll have a good point.



this

basically if there is dirt it will leak and given the hot house atmosphere surrounding the issue sooner rather than later


Also this. I would take these as sources of evidence, to be taken on their merits. But at present, after 3.5 years of the team's existence, there aren't any.
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby disgruntledgoat » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:12 pm

Rundfahrt wrote:
mididoctors wrote:
No tA Doctor wrote:
rayjay wrote:Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence


Aside from the back-dated TUE?

Tell you what, when you find some testimonies from people that have evidence that Sky doped (masseurs, mechanics, doctors, ex temamates, whatever), or even just the one, then you'll have a good point.



this

basically if there is dirt it will leak and given the hot house atmosphere surrounding the issue sooner rather than later



Therein lies the issue some of us have with the Sky fans here. When something does come up the excuses and anger show up (a la USPS). See the hiring of Leinders as a great example.


So unless you take that as prima facie evidence of systematic doping, you're a fanboy?
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mididoctors
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby mididoctors » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:15 pm

Not a big fan of sky or froome myself but I am not seeing the doping angle as of yet
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Re: Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

Postby disgruntledgoat » Mon Jul 15, 2013 15:16 pm

mididoctors wrote:Not a big fan of sky or froome myself but I am not seeing the doping angle as of yet


About sums me up too.
"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

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