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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,963
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,271
    Asked what success would look like in 10 years’ time, Frost said it was a world in which “we’ve settled into a more normal relationship with the EU … one where we have gone our own way in a number of areas and succeeded … nobody is questioning Brexit. It was self-evidently the right thing to do.”


    Evidence? Hmm, we'll wait...

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/24/brexit-campaigners-surprised-by-sour-relations-with-eu-says-lord-frost

  • ProssPross Posts: 29,011
    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628
    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 654

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,582
    edited 25 June
    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 654

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    If we had wanted to do that so badly we would have stayed in the EU. As Germany is now demonstrating.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 654

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 654
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    If we had wanted to do that so badly we would have stayed in the EU. As Germany is now demonstrating.
    So we never/have never applied pressure on smaller countries to influence policy?

    Germany trying to dictate policy, Spain telling them to leg it. Don't see what the issue is.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'YOU should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'

    FTFY
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    If we had wanted to do that so badly we would have stayed in the EU. As Germany is now demonstrating.
    So we never/have never applied pressure on smaller countries to influence policy?

    Germany trying to dictate policy, Spain telling them to leg it. Don't see what the issue is.
    Trying to dictate a policy that hits the smaller poorer countries much more than themselves for political ends. Hmm wonder what the rest of the Med countries think of that. Let's ask the Greeks, they have probably the most experience of this.
  • skyblueamateurskyblueamateur Posts: 654
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    You say impose, I would suggest propose. A proposal that has been flatly rejected.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,011
    Angela just wants it to be easier for her people to get their towels on the loungers of the Costas.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570
    Pross said:

    Angela just wants it to be easier for her people to get their towels on the loungers of the Costas.

    Good point, we're learning how to compete in that area, so they're trying to tilt the table.



    Very European :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,750 Lives Here

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,524
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    No. That's what all countries do by one means or another. To not do so would be a dereliction of foreign policy.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,628

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    No. That's what all countries do by one means or another. To not do so would be a dereliction of foreign policy.
    My question still stands regardless of what others may or may not do.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,582

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    That depends I suppose if not being able to travel to areas with lower vaccination rates makes the UK a victim.

    Choices were made.

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,750 Lives Here
    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,524
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    Club not happy with former member who has spent the last 5 years plus moaning to anyone who will listen how bad it was to be a member of the club. Yes, I can see why that would be a surprise.


    Yep. the EU not happy with us. Mutti Merkel saying that all Brits visiting the EU should be quarantined, although fully vaccined. So business as usual, quite happy to throw the Spanish costas and other Med regions under the autobús for political pique.
    Merkel is suggesting it and Spain are ignoring her. Maybe we had a bit more autonomy in the big, bad EU then we thought.
    And so should Spain ignore her. Doesn't alter her position does it that she thinks that she, through the EU should be able to dictate policy to other nations, especially ones so much more dependant on tourism than her own.

    Because we would never ever dream of doing that would we.......
    A larger more powerful nation using the EU to dictate policy to other smaller, supposedly equal nations? The EU is a vehicle for the northern states to impose their will on the poorer Med countries? Is that it?


    Haha if that's how you see it.

    I see it as:

    Germany 'We should all expect Brits, where the Delta variant is running wild and they have the highest Covid rates in Europe, to self-quarantine'

    Spain 'We're a sovereign nation who relies on tourism so er......no'
    So you don't think Germany is doing anything wrong by trying to impose its will on other nations?
    No. That's what all countries do by one means or another. To not do so would be a dereliction of foreign policy.
    My question still stands regardless of what others may or may not do.
    And I answered it in the first word. Do you think the UK government doesn't try to impose it's will on other countries?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,570

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,524
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Getting there but not yet, as evidenced by the number of cases and the continuing restrictions on travel. London in particular is still at pretty low levels of take up.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,750 Lives Here
    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Having cornered the early market for vaccines we find ourselves unable to go there because they're not vaccinated and we're riddled with delta variant.


    Victims of our own success it would appear then.
    If by success you mean more rona deaths by any other European nation
    Don't even need to bait the hook do I? :D

    But I was referring to TWH's point about our vaccine success.

    Ricks response was probably as predictable as the sunrise.
    Doesn't mean it isn't true and avoiding deaths is entirely the point of vaccines and lockdowns etc.

    The crowing about "success" is quite tragic in that context.
    The point Bally referred to was about our vaccination programme. Do you think it has been successful?
    Yeah sure.

    This is a bit like the team in the relegation zone saying "well we're the top scoreres" which is all very well, but they let in so many they didn't win a match.

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