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R7000 rear mech cable route (warning - potentially difficult content)

thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
edited 15 April in Workshop
Ok, what have I done wrong here, apart from possibly forking out for a new much that doesn't fit my frame?

Previous mech was a 5800 and worked fine. The new R7000 has moved the barrel adjuster higher up so there's a really tight bend in a really short length of cable outer, and I can't shorten it much more.
Do I need to take a dremel to the ferrule in the barrel adjuster?

The only way I can get it to shift through all 11 gears is to clamp the cable like this, otherwise on the smallest cog the cable is too tight against the cable hole to allow the mech to shift (it will move if I pull it by hand). This looks totally wrong, and there's a lot more force needed to shift onto the bigger cogs with the cable this way.


Any suggestions welcome, including hammer/fire/over the fence.
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Posts

  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 5,827
    It looks weird, like the whole mech should be twisted about 30 degrees clockwise. Is it seated correctly against the little lip of the dropout or is it supposed to be on a hanger?
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  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
    elbowloh said:

    It looks weird, like the whole mech should be twisted about 30 degrees clockwise. Is it seated correctly against the little lip of the dropout or is it supposed to be on a hanger?

    It is seated on the lip of the hanger as per the instructions I found on YouTube.
    There are two pins on the link and I've used the upper one. I can try the other one and see, it didn't look right when I tried that position without the cable in place.
  • johngtijohngti Posts: 1,535
    I'm with elbow - looks like its not mounted correctly
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
    Hmm
    I'll have another go at it when I get a chance and see if it can be repositioned.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,132 Lives Here
    Does look like it's sitting a bit funky. Not having played with one I can't be sure, but in the second picture if the cable went the other side of the clamp bolt it might have more leverage making shifting easier.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176

    Does look like it's sitting a bit funky. Not having played with one I can't be sure, but in the second picture if the cable went the other side of the clamp bolt it might have more leverage making shifting easier.

    Running the cable on the other side of the clamp bolt is the correct way to do it and the shifting is lighter, but then I can only shift into 10 out of 11 gears because the cable's pulled so tight against the side of the hole that the friction stops it moving.

    I'll see if i can reposition the mech, might solve everything.
  • me-109me-109 Posts: 1,387
    Have you tried removing the extra drop link/direct mount thing? Is that possible? Would that help the cable run?
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
    me-109 said:

    Have you tried removing the extra drop link/direct mount thing? Is that possible? Would that help the cable run?

    Instructions say the drop link is needed if you're attaching to a mech hanger.
    You might be able to turn the link though, I can have a look at that.
  • wongataawongataa Posts: 923
    thistle_ said:

    elbowloh said:

    It looks weird, like the whole mech should be twisted about 30 degrees clockwise. Is it seated correctly against the little lip of the dropout or is it supposed to be on a hanger?

    It is seated on the lip of the hanger as per the instructions I found on YouTube.
    There are two pins on the link and I've used the upper one. I can try the other one and see, it didn't look right when I tried that position without the cable in place.
    Why are you following installation instructions from YouTube instead of the freely downloadable ones from Shimano? I would follow the manufacturer's installation instructions because they should be correct.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
    wongataa said:

    thistle_ said:

    elbowloh said:

    It looks weird, like the whole mech should be twisted about 30 degrees clockwise. Is it seated correctly against the little lip of the dropout or is it supposed to be on a hanger?

    It is seated on the lip of the hanger as per the instructions I found on YouTube.
    There are two pins on the link and I've used the upper one. I can try the other one and see, it didn't look right when I tried that position without the cable in place.
    Why are you following installation instructions from YouTube instead of the freely downloadable ones from Shimano? I would follow the manufacturer's installation instructions because they should be correct.
    The Shimano instructions say the same as the YouTube video.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoatN0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 4,509
    edited 13 April
    I switched from 105 5800 GS mech to the 105 7000 last summer at the same time as switching from the supplied 11-32 to 11-34 cassette and replacing the rear mech cable that had sheared inside the BRS505 brifter, first time I've messed around with such mech things despite having bikes for decades.

    Internal routing was a bit of a fiddle despite using https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07Z4WQY7D , but following the instruction leaflet in the mech box for clamping was fine. I vaguely recall it giving the impression that the cable route through the mech clamp was different to older mech models.
    ================
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  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,158
    Nothing wrong with the angle, it sits high up because the chain is on the smallest sprocket... it should naturally move clockwise as you shift to bigger sprockets
  • flasherflasher Posts: 1,729
    The cable is clamped in the wrong place, it should come straight to the V shaped guide then clamped.


  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,176
    flasher said:

    The cable is clamped in the wrong place, it should come straight to the V shaped guide then clamped.

    If I clamp it in the correct position, it won't shift onto the smallest cog. If I clamp it in the wrong place it will :confused:
    I haven't got the end cap with the nose/tongue on at the moment, something to add when I next get a chance to fettle with it.

  • joe_totale-2joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,302
    flasher said:

    The cable is clamped in the wrong place, it should come straight to the V shaped guide then clamped.


    This. There's a groove in the clamp which the cable should run through which I can see in photo 2 it isn't right now.
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 165
    Bigger loop of cable from chainstay to derailleur? The cable exit point at the end of the chainstay is great for an electronic wire, not so good for mechanical shifting efficiency.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,132 Lives Here
    i.bhamra said:

    Bigger loop of cable from chainstay to derailleur? The cable exit point at the end of the chainstay is great for an electronic wire, not so good for mechanical shifting efficiency.

    I think this might help, read elsewhere about a Shimano mech needing a longer loop than was ideal to allow it to work. Can't remember what the mech was. But if the mech swings forward as it goes through the gears it may need a longer length of outer to enable it to do so.
    Although that may not explain why it wouldn't go into the smallest cog with the cable clamped correctly.
  • flasherflasher Posts: 1,729
    thistle_ said:

    flasher said:

    The cable is clamped in the wrong place, it should come straight to the V shaped guide then clamped.

    If I clamp it in the correct position, it won't shift onto the smallest cog. If I clamp it in the wrong place it will :confused:
    I haven't got the end cap with the nose/tongue on at the moment, something to add when I next get a chance to fettle with it.

    You need to follow the instructions, they are there for a reason, you can clearly see the cable rubbing on exit this shouldn't be the case. If you continue like this you will never get clean shifts.
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 165


    Although that may not explain why it wouldn't go into the smallest cog with the cable clamped correctly.

    I think from the OP's description it could explain it. The force of the short and rigid outer length pushing against the housing on the derailleur is enough to stop the spring pulling the derailleur and chain down on to the last sprocket....it makes sense in my head anyway....
  • If the mech won't go into the smallest sprocket then it's either the stop adjustment or cable tension that is preventing it. The length of cable from frame to mech does look very short so could well be exacerbating the issue.

    If the cable is installed correctly and it won't go to the smallest sprocket then reduce the cable tension. What happens when you remove the cable completely - will the mech shift to the smallest sprocket? If not then it's a stop adjustment issue, if yes then it's cable tension/routing that is the issue or it's just goosed.

    Your issue has taught me one thing today and that is what this word means; Hexalobular
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 165
    Shimano recommend a specific outer cable for that loop (OT-RS900) which is more flexible and helps with this kind of routing. Personally I just used the same outer I had for the rest of the gear cables with a longer loop. It works perfectly but I also have an older style external mounting point for the outer cable further back down the chainstay.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,307

    i.bhamra said:

    Bigger loop of cable from chainstay to derailleur? The cable exit point at the end of the chainstay is great for an electronic wire, not so good for mechanical shifting efficiency.

    I think this might help, read elsewhere about a Shimano mech needing a longer loop than was ideal to allow it to work. Can't remember what the mech was. But if the mech swings forward as it goes through the gears it may need a longer length of outer to enable it to do so.
    Although that may not explain why it wouldn't go into the smallest cog with the cable clamped correctly.
    SRAM cables deffo need a longer cable, must admit to not gaving heard this for Shimano but that cable does look v short.

    I'd extend the cable and see if that helps, a quick double check of limit screws.

    A real curve ball is also to check if the wheel is sitting equally all the way in the drop outs - been known before when people have put wheels in whilst the frame is in a workstand for them not to be seated properly and mech issues to ensue.
  • skeetamskeetam Posts: 171
    edited 13 April
    i.bhamra said:

    Bigger loop of cable from chainstay to derailleur? The cable exit point at the end of the chainstay is great for an electronic wire, not so good for mechanical shifting efficiency.


    Firstly, as pointed out by others, the cable is clamped in the wrong place. I can't tell from the picture but Shimano supply a very flexible piece of outer for the tight curve out of the frame to the rear mech. You cannot use normal outer as it won't make that curve without resistance and will push the rear mech in towards the frame.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 964
    I've got a box of the proper rear mech cable outers for the Rxxx groupsets (they're super flexible)

    Drop me a PM and you can have one.
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 165
    edited 13 April
    skeetam said:

    Firstly, as pointed out by others, the cable is clamped in the wrong place.

    Yes. The OP states this is the case in the original post (as well as posting a picture showing this very clearly). The OP also explains why they did it...
  • skeetamskeetam Posts: 171
    i.bhamra said:

    skeetam said:

    Firstly, as pointed out by others, the cable is clamped in the wrong place.

    Yes. The OP states this is the case in the original post (as well as posting a picture showing this very clearly). The OP also explains why they did it...
    I’m so glad you’re moderator on this site.

    You incorrectly pointed out that the OP should use normal outer but with a longer loop. With the exit hole on the frame where it is, that will not work. It could work if the exit hole was on the chain stay.

  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,068
    edited 14 April



    His setup vs mine. Derailleur looks mounted correctly. My cable exits under the stay which means a much longer, gentler curve in the outer loop. I think the tightness and shortness of your cable outer is the issue - it looks like it’s almost kinking, although the photo is not high enough resolution to see that clearly.

    I’d try the proper ultra-flexible outer first with the cable clamped in the right place. If that doesn’t work, perhaps fitting a noodle to where the inner cable exits the chain stay; the first time where you can see it just to the right of the quick release nut, not after it exits the dropout. A suitable noodle angle may allow a much longer loop of cable outer to overcome that really tight bend.
  • lincolndavelincolndave Posts: 9,272
    Any outcome to the problem out yet thistle?
  • seanoconnseanoconn Posts: 7,658
    @thistle_ WTF!?

    We need closure
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,307
    this is triggering me without closure.
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