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La Vuelta 2020 - Stage 6: Biescas - Aramón Formigal, 146.4kms *Spoilers*

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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375



    Thanks - just watching the ITV highlights - couldn't figure out how Roglic lost all his teammates!


    They've been full gas since the season resumed. They're going to tire eventually
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 12,904
    Total carnage itv 4 highlights not extensive enough to fully understand wtf happened
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,674
    edited October 2020
    RichN95. said:



    Thanks - just watching the ITV highlights - couldn't figure out how Roglic lost all his teammates!


    They've been full gas since the season resumed. They're going to tire eventually
    In the 2 and a half months since his first race back, he's ridden 37 days, which includes the Tour, the Worlds and LBL, all of which he rode at full gas. Add into that he had the spill in the Dauphine that caused him to abandon. It has been a heavy schedule. Saying that, Carapaz hasn't been a great deal lighter (similar warm up race volume, plus Il Lombardia, and then the same schedule in between Tour and Vuelta minus LBL), so you'd think many of the riders will be similarly tired.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 4,521

    Don't know what has got into Ineos these days, but the damage to Jumbo was done when they attacked.............on the downhill.
    They split the peloton and gapped Roglic and co by 20 seconds. His support were all blown out in the chase, but for Bennett.
    Apparently he had been suffering in the cold and wet (odd, given his background) and may have done a "Valverde" by going back to the team car for a bit of a kit change.



    Thanks - just watching the ITV highlights - couldn't figure out how Roglic lost all his teammates!
    Ineos attacked on the descent and caused the peloton to split.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,290
    edited October 2020
    Details of what happened can be read here, but very similar to the Sunweb Stelvio situation:

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rain-jacket-mistake-ends-roglics-lead-in-vuelta-a-espana/

    With driving rain and the prospect of a cold, wet descent before the final climb to Formigal, the race leader eased up on the category 2 Cotefablo after having problems putting on his rain jacket. At the front of the peloton his rivals took advantage and accelerated, and although Roglič was paced back to the peloton at the foot of the climb, the effort decimated the Jumbo-Visma team.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,561
    I think the Peleton need to spend the rest day practicing putting their jackets on.

    It seems to be the deciding factor in Grand Tours these days.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 20,536
    Castelli must be loving this. It's like M-SR and Gabba all over again!
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
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  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,561

    Total carnage itv 4 highlights not extensive enough to fully understand wtf happened

    I don't think it was on camera anyway, the commentators had zero info on Roglic's disapearance until his post race interview. They did say that even the team DS didn't seem to realise he'd dropped back until the rest of team were up the road without him.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,561
    And how do we think Chris Froome will enjoy being Dan Martin's domestique next year?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,774
    🎶Anything JV does, DB can do better🎶

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  • Looks cool but what's it for?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375

    Looks cool but what's it for?

    It's being sold off for the Best Buddies charity which Froome is involved in. It's done by a US based Brazilian artist called Romero Britto
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Just rewatched the coverage from the top of the climb where Ineos (Amador specifically) pushed on.

    Not sure the point at which Roglic dropped back, as the heli camera going over the top was drenched and you could barely see anything.

    Jumbo had disappeared by the bottom of the climb (about 30k to go for the break) and Roglic got back on with about 22k to go. Kuss looked to put in a final effort to get Rog across.

    So presumably, Jumbo chased from 30k to go until 22k to go to get Rog back in. George Bennett must have stayed in the front group, as he was pace making for Rog further up the climb
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,775
    edited October 2020
    In the end Roglic ending up 30 seconds behind Carapaz isn't ideal, but also not catastrophic. Jumbo/Roglic managed to salvage the best of a bad situation with the gap being around 3 minutes at points.
    If Roglic doesn't crater, he should be able to make that up or at least close to it in the ITT.
    I'd presume Carapaz needs about close to a minute to be comfortable prior to the ITT?!
    PTP Champion 2019
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,674

    Details of what happened can be read here, but very similar to the Sunweb Stelvio situation:

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rain-jacket-mistake-ends-roglics-lead-in-vuelta-a-espana/

    With driving rain and the prospect of a cold, wet descent before the final climb to Formigal, the race leader eased up on the category 2 Cotefablo after having problems putting on his rain jacket. At the front of the peloton his rivals took advantage and accelerated, and although Roglič was paced back to the peloton at the foot of the climb, the effort decimated the Jumbo-Visma team.

    I did wonder why Dennis and TGH didn't put a bit of a spurt on when Hindley was having so much difficulty with his. Maybe it qualifies as ungentlemanly conduct.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,561
    edited October 2020
    m.r.m. said:

    In the end Roglic ending up 30 seconds behind Carapaz isn't ideal, but also not catastrophic. Jumbo/Roglic managed to salvage the best of a bad situation with the gap being around 3 minutes at points.
    If Roglic doesn't crater, he should be able to make that up or at least close to it in the ITT.
    I'd presume Carapaz needs about close to a minute to be comfortable prior to the ITT?!

    Unless the team worry about him cracking in the ITT as he has at the end of the TdFs in 2018 and this year. Roglic won't want to start that stage with a deficit.

    ETA: Just checked the schedule, it's not a "penultimate stage" ITT so there will be wiggle room after the event if Roglic doesn't perfom as well as he could.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,445
    If he shipped 3minutes to the leaders mid-stage and ended up only 30s behind them by the end, that's got to be something of a pscyhological win for Roglic isn't it? No wonder he looked chilled about it all in the post-stage interviews.
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  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,290
    edited October 2020
    m.r.m. said:

    In the end Roglic ending up 30 seconds behind Carapaz isn't ideal, but also not catastrophic. Jumbo/Roglic managed to salvage the best of a bad situation with the gap being around 3 minutes at points.
    If Roglic doesn't crater, he should be able to make that up or at least close to it in the ITT.
    I'd presume Carapaz needs about close to a minute to be comfortable prior to the ITT?!

    Wait, what? He only went back to the car.
    Where have you read that the gap was ever 3 minutes?
    He was at the front at the top of the climb and got onto the back of the bunch at the start of road leading to the final, categorised climb. There was almost no flat in between.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    m.r.m. said:

    In the end Roglic ending up 30 seconds behind Carapaz isn't ideal, but also not catastrophic. Jumbo/Roglic managed to salvage the best of a bad situation with the gap being around 3 minutes at points.
    If Roglic doesn't crater, he should be able to make that up or at least close to it in the ITT.
    I'd presume Carapaz needs about close to a minute to be comfortable prior to the ITT?!


    He was three minutes behind the breakaway, not Carapaz.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Matti66Matti66 Posts: 190
    ddraver said:

    🎶Anything JV does, DB can do better🎶

    Just for the rest day or will race on it?
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,775

    m.r.m. said:

    In the end Roglic ending up 30 seconds behind Carapaz isn't ideal, but also not catastrophic. Jumbo/Roglic managed to salvage the best of a bad situation with the gap being around 3 minutes at points.
    If Roglic doesn't crater, he should be able to make that up or at least close to it in the ITT.
    I'd presume Carapaz needs about close to a minute to be comfortable prior to the ITT?!

    Wait, what? He only went back to the car.
    Where have you read that the gap was ever 3 minutes?
    He was at the front at the top of the climb and got onto the back of the bunch at the start of road leading to the final, categorised climb. There was almost no flat in between.
    Oh sorry, I caught up on the stage löate night after work. Seemed to me like he was 3 min behind Carapaz' group mid stage. Well either way, 30 seconds behind isn't much of an issue at this point.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 5,358
    Except Roglic was with Carapz on the final climb with about 6 kms to go. He lost time to the other GC contenders in the final part of the final climb.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,775
    Yeah, but that would only be natural if he was chasing all stage long. Bigger case of concern could be his overall fatigue level or his propensity to crack towards the end of the third week.

    I think Carapaz has an excellent chance of winning the Vuelta. At present I'd still see Roglic in the driver's seat; but by a very slim margin due to his rain jacket faux pas.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • m.r.m. said:

    Yeah, but that would only be natural if he was chasing all stage long. Bigger case of concern could be his overall fatigue level or his propensity to crack towards the end of the third week.

    I think Carapaz has an excellent chance of winning the Vuelta. At present I'd still see Roglic in the driver's seat; but by a very slim margin due to his rain jacket faux pas.

    Neither he nor the team were chasing all stage long.
    In fact the team only chased for a maximum of 10kms.
    Roglic didn't do a tap but sat in behind the team.

    Not sure why you are persisting with this tbh.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,775
    edited October 2020
    Because it seemed to me like he was chasing. He was also isolated without teammates at the end except for Bennett, so I presumed they were trying to get him back. Especially since I was wrongly under the impression he was 3 min back. Otherwise it begs the question where Kuss and the others were towards the end. Hesink, Kuss & Dumoulin finished 8-10 min behind Roglic on a stage he lost 43 seconds to Carapaz. They shouldn't be blowing up after chasing for only 10 km. They should also not shut down early and leave him with only Bennett on a back loaded stage like this.

    Honestly not trying to be right or anything like that. Trying to figure out if Roglic made a positional mistake he had to recover from (out of position/going back to the car -> split -> chase to claw back time or if he just didn't have the legs to go with Carapaz at the very end). I should probably just re-watch it since I was seemingly too tired to realize what was actually happening. 😣😅
    PTP Champion 2019
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    edited October 2020
    The top three in the White Jersey at the Tour of Valencia this year before lockdown. Astana must be kicking themselves for picking Rodriguez for the Giro instead of the Vuelta




    On GC it was 1. Pogacar, 2. Haig (started the Giro), 3. TGH and 4. D.Martin and he is in contention at the Vuelta.
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  • m.r.m. said:

    Because it seemed to me like he was chasing. He was also isolated without teammates at the end except for Bennett, so I presumed they were trying to get him back. Especially since I was wrongly under the impression he was 3 min back. Otherwise it begs the question where Kuss and the others were towards the end. Hesink, Kuss & Dumoulin finished 8-10 min behind Roglic on a stage he lost 43 seconds to Carapaz. They shouldn't be blowing up after chasing for only 10 km. They should also not shut down early and leave him with only Bennett on a back loaded stage like this.

    Honestly not trying to be right or anything like that. Trying to figure out if Roglic made a positional mistake he had to recover from (out of position/going back to the car -> split -> chase to claw back time or if he just didn't have the legs to go with Carapaz at the very end). I should probably just re-watch it since I was seemingly too tired to realize what was actually happening. 😣😅

    That article above has his DS being pretty specific about what happens:

    Sports Director Grischa Niermann gave a more blunt explanation as to what happened on the road. He blamed the entire team at the race for making a mistake at the wrong moment.

    “This was a big mistake from us and should not have happened,” Niermann said.

    Niermann picked up on Ineos Grenadiers’ accelerations at the front of the race but it was also Movistar who took up the pace on the final climb. The director blamed neither for unsporting behaviour, instead choosing to pick up his own squad’s errors.

    “Primož had to take a rain jacket at the top of the climb but he couldn’t put it on, and he couldn’t close it. It was very cold. When he did he was too far back in the bunch and Ineos attacked on the descent and the bunch split. He was dropped.
    It was a big pity and a collective mistake from us. At that point, you can’t drop back..."
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,775
    Yeah I get that, but that doesn't say why he lost so much time to Carapaz if the chase back didn't decimate them. If it did, how come if it was only 10 km?

    Nevermind, we'll see tomorrow if Roglic has his usual legs to sprint for bonus seconds. Thanks for humouring me, blazing! :)
    PTP Champion 2019
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