Quinn Simmons benched for tweet

rick_chasey
rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
edited October 2020 in Pro race
So neo-pro Quinn Simmons of Trek has been benched for a tweet that was decided was inappropriate by trek.

I get the feeling people in the states are a bit amped up over this election. Anyway.

Here's the exchange in question



https://cyclingtips.com/2020/10/american-neo-pro-quinn-simmons-benched-by-team-over-racially-charged-tweet/

_
«134

Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
    (I wrote tinned earlier - he's not been)
    _
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    I'm hoping he's getting a hard time for using the black hand emoji, and not for his political views. As odious as Trump is to me it's a bit much to cancel someone because they support him and have different views to many.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • twotoebenny
    twotoebenny Posts: 1,433
    From what I've read it's mainly the use of the emoji that has caused the friction... it's a weird phenomenon social media where people are happy to blurt out any old sh1t without thinking...
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    salsiccia1 said:

    I'm hoping he's getting a hard time for using the black hand emoji, and not for his political views. As odious as Trump is to me it's a bit much to cancel someone because they support him and have different views to many.

    You have to assume so, don't you, otherwise it's a bit harsh
  • Matti66
    Matti66 Posts: 190
    Will there be witch hunt now to ‘cancel’ him out . Kheme rouge style. Probably .
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    In the end of the day Quinn Simmons represents two corporations in Trek and Segafredo who want to sell bikes and coffee. His tweet is going to put potential customers off hence the actions of his team.
    Trek have already courted controversy by continuing to sell bikes to the US Police.

    Personally I feel that Trek Segafredo have taken the right course of action, they certainly appear more proactive than Sky/Ineos were with Moscon.
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    There's been other posts on various social media platforms such as Instagram apparently. Sort of watched it real time on twitter and lots of people were getting stuck in including some high profile accounts like Phil Gaimon and Peter Flax.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Matti66
    Matti66 Posts: 190
    joe_totale-2 said:

    In the end of the day Quinn Simmons represents two corporations in Trek and Segafredo who want to sell bikes and coffee. His tweet is going to put potential customers off hence the actions of his team.
    Trek have already courted controversy by continuing to sell bikes to the US Police.

    Personally I feel that Trek Segafredo have taken the right course of action, they certainly appear more proactive than Sky/Ineos were with Moscon.

    Re the Moscon thing. You probably have a better recall of this than me, but I thought he was sanctioned for a few weeks an attended a course of some sort. Tbh the matter is closed .
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    salsiccia1 said:

    I'm hoping he's getting a hard time for using the black hand emoji, and not for his political views. As odious as Trump is to me it's a bit much to cancel someone because they support him and have different views to many.


    What is the significance of the black hand emoji?

    Not knowing any significance to it, I thought it a bit unseemly seeing a load of middle age journalists pilling onto a 19 year old. At that age your political views are almost entirely inherited.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    RichN95. said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    I'm hoping he's getting a hard time for using the black hand emoji, and not for his political views. As odious as Trump is to me it's a bit much to cancel someone because they support him and have different views to many.


    What is the significance of the black hand emoji?

    Not knowing any significance to it, I thought it a bit unseemly seeing a load of middle age journalists pilling onto a 19 year old. At that age your political views are almost entirely inherited.
    The internet equivalent of black face apparently.
  • 50x11
    50x11 Posts: 408
    Not sure I agree with benching him for supporting Trump, but it also seems the emoji is the issue. Suppose it's a white person using the black hand, but not sure if there is more context to it.

    Trek seem to have reacted quickly to an emoji, but don't mind constant videos of their bikes being used to beat black protesters up. Suppose it comes down to money.
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    RichN95. said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    I'm hoping he's getting a hard time for using the black hand emoji, and not for his political views. As odious as Trump is to me it's a bit much to cancel someone because they support him and have different views to many.


    What is the significance of the black hand emoji?

    Not knowing any significance to it, I thought it a bit unseemly seeing a load of middle age journalists pilling onto a 19 year old. At that age your political views are almost entirely inherited.
    To me it looks like virtual blackface and it appears to be intentional.

    However, you're right and that this is probably the actions of a 19 year old who may be still quite naive.
    Matti66 said:



    Re the Moscon thing. You probably have a better recall of this than me, but I thought he was sanctioned for a few weeks an attended a course of some sort. Tbh the matter is closed .

    It's not just the racist incident with Moscon but his general poor behaviour towards other riders in the peloton:

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/debusschere-on-moscons-disqualification-its-a-series-of-incidents-and-its-always-the-same-guy/
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    I didn't go chasing up the references because I couldn't face it, frankly, but there was some suggestion that he was doubling down on it once he was called out. From a reputational point of view I can't believe that teams don't have a general social media policy of "if you get into a bit of a spat, contact the PR guys to work out the best way to extricate yourself, or at least emerge as the winner, rather than going rogue and digging yourself deeper"
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    I didn't follow it closely - life's too short - but it does seem to be the black hand that was the problematic microagression/Gave the left all the excuse it needed. Given our whiteo-centric devices, he would have had to select that colour and I can't see why a white dude would have chosen a black hand to respond to a white journalist. On the other hand (arf), It's not something I've ever thought about before when using emojis 😮😝🤤😱🍆

    Chloe Dygert has a similar twitter feed in terms of likes and retweets but had not yet been in trouble. Perhaps it's harder to cancel someone in a hospital bed with half a leg hanging off tho...

    WvA don't think Greta Thunberg is all that either, but I suspect the Dutch won't give a sh...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,339
    Or have the brains to understand that if social media doesn't directly earn you money, use it exceedingly judiciously and sparingly.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • gregster04
    gregster04 Posts: 1,680
    He made a mistake, pretty easy for a 19 year old on social media. I have sympathy for that.

    His team have reacted, which they’re entitled to do as they pay his wages and want to sell more of their products. I can also sympathise with that.

    If you can’t see why people from minority groups have a problem with Trump then you just don’t want to see it.

    I expect he’ll be back racing for Trek-Segafredo next season and we won’t seem him much on social media. He’s a very talented guy so I hope we do.

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    I may be older, but I don't get it.
    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    Folks are automatically assuming he must be racially motivated to have done so, but how does this relate to José Been, who is white?
    Is it because of his right wing political stance?

    Not sure why JB thought it would be a good idea to wade into the US political debate either. Sport's commentators tend to keep any views they have to themselves as personal views can sometimes land them in hit water too.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    I don't get why a white person can't use a black emoji either or vice versa however we are where we are and if that is considered a racial slur of some sort I can see why he needs to be suspended for it if he did it knowingly with that intention.



    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    blazing_saddles said:

    I may be older, but I don't get it.
    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    Folks are automatically assuming he must be racially motivated to have done so, but how does this relate to José Been, who is white?
    Is it because of his right wing political stance?

    Not sure why JB thought it would be a good idea to wade into the US political debate either. Sport's commentators tend to keep any views they have to themselves as personal views can sometimes land them in hit water too.

    Do you think it was actually random though? The default colour is Simpsons-esque yellow.

    His follow up suggests it possibly wasn't.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    bobmcstuff said:



    Do you think it was actually random though? The default colour is Simpsons-esque yellow.

    His follow up suggests it possibly wasn't.


    But here's a thing. I am part of a Whatsapp group where people use the thumbs up or down emoji to denote availability. Everyone uses the yellow ones apart from two. One uses the brown one (he's not white) and another uses the white one. Now what are we to make of that. Is he going out of his way to use it to signal white pride. Or is he just using it because he's not yellow. (I don't really know the guy)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    I think there's maybe some previous... https://twitter.com/alexkellum/status/1311429701362016257?s=20
    Correlation is not causation.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,202
    He's an idiot, he shouldn't get political and concentrate on his riding. No doubt now somebody will take exception to something hypocritical he does and he'll be made very much aware of it.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    above_the_cows said:

    I think there's maybe some previous... https://twitter.com/alexkellum/status/1311429701362016257?s=20

    What he said to Williams is referenced in the CyclingTips article - again not that inflammatory in isolation, but I guess part of a pattern, and sending unprovoked messages to a black rider to tell them they're rubbish after they gave an interview about their struggles with selection is probably not very sensible. Especially at the time it happened. Just keep it to yourself...
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    blazing_saddles said:

    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    But we don't live in a non-racist society. And a white guy who openly supports a white-supremacist, has flirted with right-wing views previously and wants to make a point to a journalist (who was possibly unwise to comment as she did) using a black emoji is guaranteed to inflame things. Simmons might not be racist but that deliberate choice doesn't reflect well when things are so febrile.

    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    edited October 2020
    bobmcstuff said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    I may be older, but I don't get it.
    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    Folks are automatically assuming he must be racially motivated to have done so, but how does this relate to José Been, who is white?
    Is it because of his right wing political stance?

    Not sure why JB thought it would be a good idea to wade into the US political debate either. Sport's commentators tend to keep any views they have to themselves as personal views can sometimes land them in hit water too.

    Do you think it was actually random though? The default colour is Simpsons-esque yellow.

    His follow up suggests it possibly wasn't.
    I haven't a clue as I don't general bother with twitter, so I am afraid I haven't read any follow up.
    focuszing723 said:

    He's an idiot, he shouldn't get political and concentrate on his riding. No doubt now somebody will take exception to something hypocritical he does and he'll be made very much aware of it.

    Same thing could be said for José Been.
    Her tweet was extremely political and whatever we as individuals think of Trump, extremely offensive towards 43% of their voting public.
    She's not 19 years old either, a sizeable percentage of whom are bound to be idiots.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    salsiccia1 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    But we don't live in a non-racist society. And a white guy who openly supports a white-supremacist, has flirted with right-wing views previously and wants to make a point to a journalist (who was possibly unwise to comment as she did) using a black emoji is guaranteed to inflame things. Simmons might not be racist but that deliberate choice doesn't reflect well when things are so febrile.

    When you say he openly supports a white supremacist you mean he supports the elected President of his country - sounds less dramatic.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
    blazing_saddles said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    I may be older, but I don't get it.
    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    Folks are automatically assuming he must be racially motivated to have done so, but how does this relate to José Been, who is white?
    Is it because of his right wing political stance?

    Not sure why JB thought it would be a good idea to wade into the US political debate either. Sport's commentators tend to keep any views they have to themselves as personal views can sometimes land them in hit water too.

    Do you think it was actually random though? The default colour is Simpsons-esque yellow.

    His follow up suggests it possibly wasn't.
    I haven't a clue as I don't general bother with twitter, so I am afraid I haven't read any follow up.
    focuszing723 said:

    He's an idiot, he shouldn't get political and concentrate on his riding. No doubt now somebody will take exception to something hypocritical he does and he'll be made very much aware of it.

    Same thing could be said for José Been.
    Her tweet was extremely political and whatever we as individuals think of Trump, extremely offensive towards 43% of their voting public.
    She's not 19 years old either, a sizeable percentage of whom are bound to be idiots.
    What's the point you're driving at here?

    _
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    edited October 2020
    DeVlaeminck said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    But we don't live in a non-racist society. And a white guy who openly supports a white-supremacist, has flirted with right-wing views previously and wants to make a point to a journalist (who was possibly unwise to comment as she did) using a black emoji is guaranteed to inflame things. Simmons might not be racist but that deliberate choice doesn't reflect well when things are so febrile.

    When you say he openly supports a white supremacist you mean he supports the elected President of his country - sounds less dramatic.
    But the President of his country is a white supremacist. He's got so blatant that anyone supporting him is tacitly supporting that because they're obviously not concerned enough about it to stop supporting him.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    At this stage you don't get a pass on being a trumpanaut ... I do not care what percentage they represent . Neutrality is actually pro one side in this and it's the wrong side ... There is no place for that now . We are a cigarettes papers width from full fascist . Get on the right side of this now . Not the forum or place for this ? Look at what these people have done to the body politic and our forum culture
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    salsiccia1 said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    In a truly non-racist society, surely a white guy could and would randomly use both black and white emojis, as would a black guy?
    To me the idea that a white person cannot use a black symbol is at best, counter-productive.
    Atm, this seems to be an insurmountable hurdle in our society.

    But we don't live in a non-racist society. And a white guy who openly supports a white-supremacist, has flirted with right-wing views previously and wants to make a point to a journalist (who was possibly unwise to comment as she did) using a black emoji is guaranteed to inflame things. Simmons might not be racist but that deliberate choice doesn't reflect well when things are so febrile.

    When you say he openly supports a white supremacist you mean he supports the elected President of his country - sounds less dramatic.
    But the President of his country is a white supremacist. He's got so blatant that anyone supporting him is tacitly supporting that because they're obviously not concerned enough about it to stop supporting him.
    Well I don't agree he's blatantly a white supremacist - that's like people who call anyone right of Tony Blair a fascist.

    About 30% of Asian voters supported Trump, even 1 in 10 black voters. He may favour policies that impact less favourably on BAME people whether directly or indirectly but saying he's blatantly a white supremacist is laying it on rather thick.

    I don't even like the guy or his policies but this kind of hyperbole just inflames the debate.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]

Categories