New aero bike vs deep section wheel upgrade

majster
majster Posts: 66
edited October 2019 in Road buying advice
Hi all

I've got a Giant TCR with stock Giant 30mm carbon wheels (non disc model)

Wanting to get something that is faster on the flats

Can't decide whether to save for a new second bike with deep section rims and keep the TCR as is or do I get some deep section wheels and upgrade the TCR

Already got a alloy winter bike with discs, so this bike is for speed and keeping up with fast club rides

What does everyone think?

Comments

  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,494
    Buy what you like.
    I've just bought a new tarmac with 50mm wheels - as it is a great all round frame/wheel combo and the frame is supposed to be as Aero as an early venge was.
    New Cannondale Supersix is apparently quite aero as well.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Just get some deep section wheels, perhaps some aero handlebars if you really keen, there's a fair amount of hype for them bringing relatively large improvements.

    The TCR is already a bike with a good number of aero optimisations (internal cables, teardrop tubes and seatpost etc etc.)

    And if you are riding a fast club ride, you should be drafting anyway, it's more likely your fitness is the limitation.


    Unless you want to get a new aero bike, in which case knock yourself out, but don't kid yourself that the TCR is holding you back.
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    You may already do this but your position on the bike is just as important than any aero bling.
    Is the stem slammed and your riding position nice and low?

    You've already got some good wheels and deeper wheels aren't going to make a huge difference. Likewise as mentioned above the TCR is a great bike that wins countless races and is already fairly aero.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    buy both. can't see why you possibly do anything else. its a bit weird tbh.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Suppose it depends on the age of the TCR and what the wheels are like vs what you would buy in their place. From what you say I'm assuming reasonably modern with decent wheels - some of those stock Giant wheels retail for a fair whack.

    If you really want to go to town on aerodynamics then have a look at where the biggest gains are - helmet, kit etc as well as the wheels and the frame and as mentioned your position.

    If you just fancy a new bike and feel you should really get a fast one if you are spending the money anyway then get the new bike - but only if you can afford deep section wheels too.

    If you fancy a new bike but can't justify the outlay just get the wheels and stick some new bar tape on!
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    If you're on a club ride with all of the turbulence from multiple bikes - then an aero bike won't make a difference over a round tubed bike. Look at the kit you wear - make sure it's tight and aero. I know when I don my rain cape and my mate doesn't - he can leave me for dead.
  • majster
    majster Posts: 66
    I get the whole get fitter argument, where do you draw the line. We could all be riding £100 heavy steel bikes but most of us are on fairly light carbon bikes.

    I guess my thought process is that on same days it may be nice to have deep section carbon wheels to get that slight advantage on the flats, however, equally on other days with big winds you may not want the headache of cross winds

    So my original question was do I put deeper wheels on my TCR and ride like that most of the time or do you get another bike and have one with deep section and the other with normal rims

    I appreciate costs involved, but all relative in the absence of other vices

    Hope that provides context
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Deeper rims are faster downhill in my experience. Less so on the flat - but I prefer shallow rims just because it's always windy when I go out...
  • lakesluddite
    lakesluddite Posts: 1,337
    Why don't you just get the deep section wheels for now, and then if you still feel the need for a full aero frame later go and get one? There will probably be some good bargains on frames and components after Christmas so you could build it up with the spec that you want.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Majster wrote:
    I get the whole get fitter argument, where do you draw the line. We could all be riding £100 heavy steel bikes but most of us are on fairly light carbon bikes.

    I guess my thought process is that on same days it may be nice to have deep section carbon wheels to get that slight advantage on the flats, however, equally on other days with big winds you may not want the headache of cross winds

    So my original question was do I put deeper wheels on my TCR and ride like that most of the time or do you get another bike and have one with deep section and the other with normal rims

    Are your current wheels the ones that retail for about £800 a set ? If that's the case I'm assuming you'd have to go for something genuinely deep to justify the expense of changing them - 60mm deep rims do tend to handle differently to 30mm and ceteris paribus they will be heavier but they should give you a bit more speed when you are on or off the front (or off the back I suppose).

    I don't think aero frames are value for money in terms of reducing drag for the amount spent and again as someone pointed out your bike already has aero features. For that reason if it's a case of how should you spend your money to go a little bit faster on the flat - and assuming your position on the Giant is a good one - I'd get the wheels and then look at stuff like your helmet, kit etc etc. For example what about one of those skin suit with pockets I think they are meant to be faster than a jersey and shorts ? Those are all things that could carry over onto a new bike in the future or else things you would want to do even if you bought a new bike.

    Someone mentioned an aero set of bars - maybe that would be worth the expense too though I decent aero bike would likely come with them.

    It really does depend on you, how much money you have etc etc but personally I'm going down the road of getting some wheels for my existing bike - I like the bike and I can't justify splashing out 4k plus on a new one when I can get some decent lightly used wheels for 20% of that.

    If you want the bike though a mate has bought a system six (mechanical ultegra but still a fair amount - it's got the deep rims on it) and he swears it's noticeably faster than his previous already quite expensive bike.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    For example what about one of those skin suit with pockets I think they are meant to be faster than a jersey and shorts ?


    I'm not sure I'd ever live it down if I turned up for the club run in a skinsuit. The mickey taking would be unbelievable.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    i think the overall problem though is that he is looking at spending all this money to keep up with a club ride.

    not for racing
    not to compete in the Nationals/Commonwealths

    but to keep up with a club ride


    just pedal faster dude and spend the money on blood tranfusions/blow/ho.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • majster
    majster Posts: 66
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    i think the overall problem though is that he is looking at spending all this money to keep up with a club ride.

    not for racing
    not to compete in the Nationals/Commonwealths

    but to keep up with a club ride


    just pedal faster dude and spend the money on blood tranfusions/blow/ho.

    Your comments aren't helpful. Some would say spending the same amount of money for a race is a waste. You've made your point. It's all subjective and each to their own!
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Fenix wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    For example what about one of those skin suit with pockets I think they are meant to be faster than a jersey and shorts ?


    I'm not sure I'd ever live it down if I turned up for the club run in a skinsuit. The mickey taking would be unbelievable.

    Yeah there is that - times have changed though I reckon it'd pretty much pass without comment on a lot of fast training rides.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    For example what about one of those skin suit with pockets I think they are meant to be faster than a jersey and shorts ?


    I'm not sure I'd ever live it down if I turned up for the club run in a skinsuit. The mickey taking would be unbelievable.

    Yeah there is that - times have changed though I reckon it'd pretty much pass without comment on a lot of fast training rides.

    Yeh but a speedsuit only gains a few seconds over longish time trials at speed, eg 30 seconds over 25 miles. If riding in a group the effects will be much less.

    As fenix said, I think the Mickey taking would be astronomical if you turned up to a club ride in a full aero suit.

    Tbh though, if he's already being dropped in group rides then the answer is to do more training to build fitness, not to try to spend a fortune on aero clothing or components.

    OP the club winter rides will always be slower than summer rides. Why don't you get to as many of them as you can, using your winter bike (which will no doubt be heavier than your summer bike), and also do several training rides in the week (indoor or out), then by the time the pace picks up again you will be stronger, fitter and much more likely to hold your own on club rides.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    I think it'd be easy to style out piss taking about wearing a speed suit on the club run/chain gang.

    Just say "It's new, I want to give it a proper trial run" or "I don't get on with the club shorts" "it's super comfy" or whatever, end of the day you are an adult and can wear whatever the fuck you like.

    I bought the club speed suit simply because it was considerably cheaper than buying shorts and a jersey. Unfortunately it isn't comfy so that plan rather backfired :lol:



    But yes, to reiterate, if you want to be faster, don't buy upgrades, ride up grades. Or do some interval sessions/spin classes. I've never seen a guy flying because he's on a new bike, I've seen plenty flying because they've actually started training properly.
  • bradsbeard
    bradsbeard Posts: 210
    Go for this if you want aero on a budget : https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-inferno-carbon-disc-road-frameset-123122.html

    I bought and for the £ very impressed.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    redvision wrote:
    Yeh but a speedsuit only gains a few seconds over longish time trials at speed, eg 30 seconds over 25 miles. If riding in a group the effects will be much less.

    As fenix said, I think the Mickey taking would be astronomical if you turned up to a club ride in a full aero suit.

    Tbh though, if he's already being dropped in group rides then the answer is to do more training to build fitness, not to try to spend a fortune on aero clothing or components.

    OP the club winter rides will always be slower than summer rides. Why don't you get to as many of them as you can, using your winter bike (which will no doubt be heavier than your summer bike), and also do several training rides in the week (indoor or out), then by the time the pace picks up again you will be stronger, fitter and much more likely to hold your own on club rides.


    But the OP isn't looking for advice on how to get fitter - they are talking about spending money on new kit - the two are not mutually exclusive and whilst we all know fitness is key it doesn't stop us owning expensive bikes. Round here if you turned up on a chain gang or one of the fast training rides wearing a speed suit nobody would bat an eyelid - aero helmets the same - 5k bikes with 60mm carbon rims the same - that's just how things have gone. I should add I ride them in a jersey, shorts, normal lid and box section rims so this is not a defence of my own actions !

    If they want a new bike get a new bike - but if they want to spend money on those small aero advantages then why not get a speedsuit - helmet etc.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    redvision wrote:
    Yeh but a speedsuit only gains a few seconds over longish time trials at speed, eg 30 seconds over 25 miles. If riding in a group the effects will be much less.

    As fenix said, I think the Mickey taking would be astronomical if you turned up to a club ride in a full aero suit.

    Tbh though, if he's already being dropped in group rides then the answer is to do more training to build fitness, not to try to spend a fortune on aero clothing or components.

    OP the club winter rides will always be slower than summer rides. Why don't you get to as many of them as you can, using your winter bike (which will no doubt be heavier than your summer bike), and also do several training rides in the week (indoor or out), then by the time the pace picks up again you will be stronger, fitter and much more likely to hold your own on club rides.


    But the OP isn't looking for advice on how to get fitter - they are talking about spending money on new kit - the two are not mutually exclusive and whilst we all know fitness is key it doesn't stop us owning expensive bikes. Round here if you turned up on a chain gang or one of the fast training rides wearing a speed suit nobody would bat an eyelid - aero helmets the same - 5k bikes with 60mm carbon rims the same - that's just how things have gone. I should add I ride them in a jersey, shorts, normal lid and box section rims so this is not a defence of my own actions !

    If they want a new bike get a new bike - but if they want to spend money on those small aero advantages then why not get a speedsuit - helmet etc.

    He is talking about spending money on a new bike or wheels to keep up with the club ride. The other kit has been suggestions made by others.

    My point is, even if he gets the most aero bike or kit available, if the engine isn't there then it won't make a difference. His best bet is to focus on improving strength and fitness.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Amen.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    redvision wrote:

    He is talking about spending money on a new bike or wheels to keep up with the club ride. The other kit has been suggestions made by others.

    My point is, even if he gets the most aero bike or kit available, if the engine isn't there then it won't make a difference. His best bet is to focus on improving strength and fitness.

    Well yes of course there are generally more gains to be had by training harder/more efficiently than there are upgrading an already decent bike but unless the two are mutually exclusive you aren't really answering his question.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]

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