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BREXIT 2021- Leave Our Fish Alone Or Else 🇬🇧

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  • ProssPross Posts: 28,219
    Whoa, hang on a minute. Coopster said it was all democratic and that it was only those imbecile Scottish judges that said it was wrong whilst the good old English courts had said it was all fine. Someone needs to tell the judges they are wrong!
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,150
    I imagine what will happen is that MPs will vote to put parliament into recess until after the Tory conference.

    I doubt it, they have made too much of a song and dance about it already. Plus, Lib Dems are done and Labour have almost finished, so it will only really affect the Tories.

    I also doubt BoJo will resign.

    My expectations are more noise about stopping a new domestic programme.

    Then more lawfare from Grieve. Then more talk about how BoJo is trying to deliver Brexit and MPs are trying to stop it.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,997
    TheBigBean wrote:
    I imagine what will happen is that MPs will vote to put parliament into recess until after the Tory conference.

    I doubt it, they have made too much of a song and dance about it already. Plus, Lib Dems are done and Labour have almost finished, so it will only really affect the Tories.

    I also doubt BoJo will resign.

    My expectations are more noise about stopping a new domestic programme.

    Then more lawfare from Grieve. Then more talk about how BoJo is trying to deliver Brexit and MPs are trying to stop it.
    Boris to remain trapped in No 10 for the forseeable I think.

    I am getting a great deal of satisfaction from seeing someone who seems to have believed he was destined for No 10 balls everything up so badly. Schadenfreude, or have German words been outlawed now?
  • Farage says Dominic Cummings should go...
    FFS, it's the advisor now is it? BJ just does what he tells him to!
    Put them all in the Tower.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,150
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    I imagine what will happen is that MPs will vote to put parliament into recess until after the Tory conference.

    I doubt it, they have made too much of a song and dance about it already. Plus, Lib Dems are done and Labour have almost finished, so it will only really affect the Tories.

    I also doubt BoJo will resign.

    My expectations are more noise about stopping a new domestic programme.

    Then more lawfare from Grieve. Then more talk about how BoJo is trying to deliver Brexit and MPs are trying to stop it.
    Boris to remain trapped in No 10 for the forseeable I think.

    I am getting a great deal of satisfaction from seeing someone who seems to have believed he was destined for No 10 balls everything up so badly. Schadenfreude, or have German words been outlawed now?

    I am unconvinced that it is that far off the plan. The purpose of the prorogation was to wind up parliament and force action. That succeeded. It largely depends on what laws are forced upon him in the next three weeks as to whether it has all gone wrong.
  • It reminds me of when Thatcher got deposed while in Brussells.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,997
    Link to a summary of the judgement http://prod-upp-image-read.ft.com/34e8f ... 24ec9edc59
  • ProssPross Posts: 28,219
    So if Johnson has been found to have acted illegally is he now subject to any form of censure or punishment?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,894 Lives Here
    Constitutionally I guess it makes it harder to be an authoritarian leader, which if you believe in representative democracy is no bad thing.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,894 Lives Here
    Pross wrote:
    So if Johnson has been found to have acted illegally is he now subject to any form of censure or punishment?

    Not illegal, unlawful - i.e. he didn't abide within the law so what he did (advice queen to prorogue) never happened.

    He hasn't broken a law.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,997
    edited September 2019
    Constitutionally I guess it makes it harder to be an authoritarian leader, which if you believe in representative democracy is no bad thing.
    I think they need to put prorogation onto a proper legal footing - at the moment it does not really have any defined limits. It's the only method of suspending parliament which does not have a proper written legal footing and it can be unilaterally exercised by the executive (I am paraphrasing David Allen Green, probably not quite right, but I agree with the sentiment, it sounds reasonable to me).
  • ProssPross Posts: 28,219
    Pross wrote:
    So if Johnson has been found to have acted illegally is he now subject to any form of censure or punishment?

    Not illegal, unlawful - i.e. he didn't abide within the law so what he did (advice queen to prorogue) never happened.

    He hasn't broken a law.

    Thought it was something along those lines as it went through the Civil Courts. Shame!
  • Brexiteer hot takes are something to behold.

    I note however that Farage keeps it personal

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    30m
    The calling of a Queen's Speech and prorogation is the worst political decision ever. Dominic Cummings must go.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • people wonder where democracy has gone? its just been reinforced spectacularly today.

    Unanimous. If only he'd given evidence about why they were taking the course of action they did things may have gone in his favour.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,894 Lives Here
    Brexiteer hot takes are something to behold.

    I note however that Farage keeps it personal

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    30m
    The calling of a Queen's Speech and prorogation is the worst political decision ever. Dominic Cummings must go.

    Cummings is killing the Brexit parry in the polls....
  • people wonder where democracy has gone? its just been reinforced spectacularly today.

    Unanimous. If only he'd given evidence about why they were taking the course of action they did things may have gone in his favour.

    Not if he'd told the truth.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,150
    Who is expecting another, shorter, prorogation?
  • I, for one, welcome our new spider overlords.
  • people wonder where democracy has gone? its just been reinforced spectacularly today.

    Unanimous. If only he'd given evidence about why they were taking the course of action they did things may have gone in his favour.

    Not if he'd told the truth.

    :) very true!

    that depends on what the truth is of course ...... as it is, he had the opportunity to make a statement and chose not to. He chose to put no evidence in support of his actions and relied only on an argument that the court wasn't in a position to judge.
    Ive really enjoyed the show.
  • people wonder where democracy has gone? its just been reinforced spectacularly today.

    Unanimous. If only he'd given evidence about why they were taking the course of action they did things may have gone in his favour.

    https://www.ft.com/content/11983298-d08 ... ded7a7fe3f


    The curious incident of the missing witness statement
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    Who is expecting another, shorter, prorogation?

    Recess for Tory conference
    Short prorogation for QS

    It may add up the same
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • people wonder where democracy has gone? its just been reinforced spectacularly today.

    Unanimous. If only he'd given evidence about why they were taking the course of action they did things may have gone in his favour.

    Not if he'd told the truth.

    :) very true!

    that depends on what the truth is of course ...... as it is, he had the opportunity to make a statement and chose not to. He chose to put no evidence in support of his actions and relied only on an argument that the court wasn't in a position to judge.
    Ive really enjoyed the show.

    The trouble with that argument is that it's not worth debating whether it was really prorogued at that time, for that length, purely to allow a Queen's speech. If you say you think it might have been, you are not telling the truth.

    So maybe that's why they couldn't get anyone to say it under oath, because then I guess that would be illegal.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,894 Lives Here
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Who is expecting another, shorter, prorogation?

    Grieve recons the ruling makes it unlikely.
  • I'm quite enjoying Brexiteer's claiming the Supreme Court ruling the prorogation unlawful is contrary to the 'will of the people'
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,894 Lives Here
    It doesn't change the electoral narrative all that much, though "unlawful" is quite a nice tag to use against your opponent
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,602
    It doesn't change the electoral narrative all that much, though "unlawful" is quite a nice tag to use against your opponent

    Oh my God!!!
    I agree with Rick :shock:
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,623
    to paraphrase johnson the liar's current buddy, lock him up!

    :D
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Ballysmate wrote:
    It doesn't change the electoral narrative all that much, though "unlawful" is quite a nice tag to use against your opponent

    Oh my God!!!
    I agree with Rick :shock:

    Labour and LD will screw it up anyway, and Farage needs Johnson to get Brexit, so it'll make for some amusing soundbites but I imagine little else.

    Does it even make a difference to 31/10 no deal?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,150
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Who is expecting another, shorter, prorogation?

    Grieve recons the ruling makes it unlikely.
    Grieve wrote:

    I would have thought that any attempt in proroguing parliament following this judgment for anything other than the four or five days to go between one session and another will immediately attract another court application, and this time in view of the supreme court judgment, there will be an immediate order that it is unlawful.

    It is a constitutional change, but it’s one, it seems to me, that came logically from the role parliament plays in a parliamentary free democracy.

    The idea that you can play fast and loose with parliament, just to nudge it to one side when it’s convenient for the executive to do so, is dead and buried for good.
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