Mountains, 36T cogs, cassettes and what have you

pblakeney · August 2019

FatTed wrote:

...if you dropped your leg speed to 70 the power required would be 196W, of course your speed would decrease.

I am always amused by the amount of non racing cyclists that don't consider this as an option, and come to a halt 3/4 up a major climb.

itboffin · August 2019

Very good information FT and as PB has said one that a lot of people forget another is know your all day avg power and heart rate and start off just below those numbers, sound advise I've failed to follow again and again.

270W for an hour sure but how about for 6 or 8, no thanks. Before I got a power meter I used HR to judge my alpine efforts, I know I can ride all day at 160 BPM push to 170 and above for more than 10 mins and I'm screwed and end up slower and slower.

That why I fitted the 30T so I can still turn 70-80 rpm I have a 32 on standby for my next adventure with the aim of 80-90 rpm

daniel_b · August 2019

Excuse the delay.

So when I came to load the van, it became apparent that I would not have room for my own bike :-(

Top box was full of a load of stuff my brother had left with me, one of his bikes on the roof, plus one in the van with my daughters bike - other luggage, all the camping gear, tent, stove, cool box etc, meant we had a very full van.

Net result was that I did one ride in France on my brothers CAAD 3 with a bottom gear of 34\25, and 4 rides in Italy.
Quite a bit of elevation, and on the last day we had a crack at Estoul, which is a slightly more than 4 mile climb, averaging at 8% - though some bits are in the high teens if strava is to be believed.

I had no power or cadence measuring, but counted the cadence a few times - highest I managed was 70, on the less steep section, lowest was circa 50 - stayed seated for most of it.
Set myself a target of top 100, which would have been 41:20ish, and managed it in 39 something, which was something like 80th, which I was happy with - given the sub optimum gear, and the fact the bike was not mine, so did not fit me like a 2 wheeled glove.

It was a very useful test though, and although I managed it, compared to a normal climb over here, my HR was about 20bpm lower than I would expect, and trying a group ride today now I am home (2 days later) my legs were still cooked, so think it's the kind of thing you (or rather I) could do once or twice in a ride, but would not be sustainable on a week away etc.

For me, this proves that my existing 36/28 setup on my bikes would not be suitable for a break abroad, so am pretty set on going for an 11-32 for the CR1 - even though I am not a fan of the big gaps, now I am a bit fitter, in theory my use of those specific cogs should be less than it used to be.

I'm now gagging to get back over there with my own bike, but that will be one for next year now.

Thinking to drive down solo, single air mattress and bike in the van, and perhaps stop in France for a handful of the major climbs I aspire to complete.

shirley_basso · August 2019

Daniel B wrote:

Afternoon all,

I'm off to France for 3 days soon, and then onto Italy for a week to spend some time with my brother.
I'm taking a bike, and my brothers CAAD 3 as it happens.

I'm reasonably fit at the moment, but never tackled a proper mountain on a roadbike.

Both the bikes I would likely take are running a smallest front cog of 36 with an 11-28 rear cassette.

I can get up most hills over here with that setup with no real struggle - Streately was a bit more of a mission, but wasn't a huge deal at the end of the day.

My CR1 has Ultegra 6800, with (I am fairly certain) a bog standard rear cage - easy way to tell?
I am contemplating changing the chain and rear cassette, and popping an Ultegra R8000 11-30 on there instead.
Not convinced it will take a 32 to be honest.

I can get said cassette with discounts for around £40, and already have the chain.

I tend to average about 88-90rpm cadence, though am happy to drop to 70ish for climbs if required, ie it doesn't cause me to blow up\wreck the rest of the ride etc.

Worth doing?

I did a week in the Pyrenees followed by cingles de ventoux on 36-28 and was fine. 6ft, 75kg and reasonably fit.

30T would have been nice and I did bring a 34T inner chainring but couldn't get it fitted so went without.

pblakeney · September 2019

Thread resurrection due to additional information.
My previous experience in the Pyrenees and preparation for the Alps fell woefully short.
I struggled on the longer climbs not due to the gradient but simply the duration. I would have been much happier with 34x32 for the last 3k of the Galibier.
Nothing will prepare you for the Alps in the UK.

pippi_langsamer-2 · September 2019

Also recently got back from trip to French Alps (Maurienne Valley region).

Swapped-out my 39 inner for a 36 to give me 53x36 up front, and bought an 11-28 cassette. I found 36x28 more than enough for all the big climbs...

daniel_b · September 2019

Thanks all.

I think the above proves that the majority of it will come down to (for climbs specifically) what your power to weight ratio is, combined with what your preferred or comfortable cadence is.

For me, 50 odd rpm was too low, and I think I got away without having any knee pain afterwards.
So I think the 11-32 for me, and sticking with the inner 36 should give me sufficient options.

davebradswmb · September 2019

PBlakeney wrote:

Nothing will prepare you for the Alps in the UK.

I don't think that's true. I've ridden in the Alps and the Pyrenees on week-long holidays and I've got up everything I've tried. There are plenty of ascents of over 300m elevation in the UK to train on, and some of these are long enough to learn about managing your effort, you just have to allow for the fact that the Alpine climbs are going to take about 3x as long.

btw I rode them with a 34 x 27 bottom gear, average cadence on top bit of the Tourmelet was 46.

pblakeney · September 2019

davebradswmb wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Nothing will prepare you for the Alps in the UK.

I don't think that's true. I've ridden in the Alps and the Pyrenees on week-long holidays and I've got up everything I've tried. There are plenty of ascents of over 300m elevation in the UK to train on, and some of these are long enough to learn about managing your effort, you just have to allow for the fact that the Alpine climbs are going to take about 3x as long.

btw I rode them with a 34 x 27 bottom gear, average cadence on top bit of the Tourmelet was 46.

I've done all that.
None of it prepared me for the Telegraphe followed by the Galibier in heat on day 3 of a 6 day tour.
300m? Phht! And a cadence of 46 is a clue.

FatTed · September 2019

PBlakeney wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Nothing will prepare you for the Alps in the UK.

I don't think that's true. I've ridden in the Alps and the Pyrenees on week-long holidays and I've got up everything I've tried. There are plenty of ascents of over 300m elevation in the UK to train on, and some of these are long enough to learn about managing your effort, you just have to allow for the fact that the Alpine climbs are going to take about 3x as long.

btw I rode them with a 34 x 27 bottom gear, average cadence on top bit of the Tourmelet was 46.

I've done all that.
None of it prepared me for the Telegraphe followed by the Galibier in heat on day 3 of a 6 day tour.
300m? Phht! And a cadence of 46 is a clue.

I did that climb as well, stupidly full gas up the Telegraphe meant the Galibier was a little bit more difficult.
still the descent is epic!

norvernrob · September 2019

davebradswmb wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Nothing will prepare you for the Alps in the UK.

I don't think that's true. I've ridden in the Alps and the Pyrenees on week-long holidays and I've got up everything I've tried. There are plenty of ascents of over 300m elevation in the UK to train on, and some of these are long enough to learn about managing your effort, you just have to allow for the fact that the Alpine climbs are going to take about 3x as long.

btw I rode them with a 34 x 27 bottom gear, average cadence on top bit of the Tourmelet was 46.

I have to say I agree, depending where you live and ride. If you’re used to doing longish rides in the UK with 70-100ft of elevation per mile, then Alpine climbs won’t be an issue. First time I went to the Alps i was shatting myself, but I actually found it easier to settle into a rhythm for an hour or more than I do to go into the red for yet another shortish double figure gradient climb in the UK.

I’m at 3.2w/kg (ish) and have 34/30 bottom gear which I use a lot as I like to climb at a fairly high cadence.

philbar72 · September 2019

try a 30 tooth cassette (11/30). I'm no climber (280 watts for an hour and 80kg) but 36/30 gives you a gear just slightly lower than 34/28 which is ideal for most mountains in the alps. as for whether it works on 6800/ 9000, it does, just budge your b screw in a bit.. the stuff above 9% is a bit of a grind, but overall its good for the 5-8% stuff you'll get there.

lochindaal · September 2019

You should consider what your rides are going to be. If you are doing one climb then you will make it up on a reasonable gear (the mental aspect of climbing for 1hr+ is far harder the first time than the physical). if you are doing multiple climbs over a longer distance you are really going to want those lower gears at the end of the day.
I've done most of my long rides on a 34/28 and now use a 36/32.

pippi_langsamer-2 · September 2019

FatTed wrote:

I did that climb as well, stupidly full gas up the Telegraphe meant the Galibier was a little bit more difficult.
still the descent is epic!

We did Telegraph/ Galibier out n back from SJd Maurienne. Have to say, I didn't enjoy the descent of Galibier at all. Far too much traffic- both bike and car/ motorbike. Telegraph was much more fun, BUT descent of the trip was the Glandon from Croix Fer side down to St Etienne Cuines. 20km of fear-induced ear-to-ear grin

stueys · September 2019

Think it depends how you like to ride and the attitude you’re going to hit. I rode the mountains for years running 11-28 on both 52/36 and 50/34. Last two years I’ve been running 11-30 and 50/34, my fitness is still the same level but I’ve found that I just prefer holding my usual 95+ cadence on the climbs. If you’re happy grinding then you can gear up a bit.

Other thing is the attitude, personally I really notice the climbs that go north of 2000+ meters of elevation. Your power output comes down and having bailout options lower than your UK gearing can be a nice option.

I’d put an 11-30 on, which any shimano short cage can manage. You’ll be fine then with either 52/36 or 50/34.

davebradswmb · September 2019

Stueys wrote:

I’d put an 11-30 on, which any shimano short cage can manage. You’ll be fine then with either 52/36 or 50/34.

The trouble is I run campagnolo. The short cage is shorter than the Shimano cage, which is a lot of the reason why it's prettier. The new Campag Chorus has a slightly longer cage so it has the same capacity as Shimano but it's less pretty than the old one as a result. They have released a 48/32 chainset to go with it though which when paired with a 27 tooth sprocket will get you half - way to the same bottom gear as a 30 sprocket on a 34 chainring. And you can then use a Record derailleur which retains the pretty compact cage

pblakeney · September 2019

davebradswmb wrote:

Stueys wrote:

I’d put an 11-30 on, which any shimano short cage can manage. You’ll be fine then with either 52/36 or 50/34.

The trouble is I run campagnolo. The short cage is shorter than the Shimano cage, which is a lot of the reason why it's prettier. The new Campag Chorus has a slightly longer cage so it has the same capacity as Shimano but it's less pretty than the old one as a result. They have released a 48/32 chainset to go with it though which when paired with a 27 tooth sprocket will get you half - way to the same bottom gear as a 30 sprocket on a 34 chainring. And you can then use a Record derailleur which retains the pretty compact cage

I use a 12-29 cassette with an Athena short cage and 50/34 for serious mountains. Works perfectly well. Although as said previously, I'd have liked a 34x32 gear for the last 5k of the Galibier. (Not for the gradient).

Mountains, 36T cogs, cassettes and what have you

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