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Di2 Glitch

pippi_langsamer-2pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,424
edited June 2019 in Workshop
Been using Di2 for around 5 years now without issue (Ultegra 6870 and Dura Ace 9070), however recently I've started experiencing intermittent issues with my 9070.

On two occasions now, I've ridden fine but.....having set-off again after a stop, I've found I've lost all connectivity in the system. It doesn't go into "limp", mode but just stays in the gear it was left. Re-plugging front and/ or rear etubes has worked once, but most recently (Sunday), this didn't solve the issue. I don't know if the messing with the wires is just coincidental. I take the prong with me now for such instances, and all plugs are firmly clicked home. Anyway, it suddenly started working again on Sunday, and worked fine for the rest of the way home.

Just seems weird it only seems to do this after I stop. Does my bike not like cafe stops??!

Running 9070 with all latest firmware etc, with latest battery. I also run the in-line wifi module to communicate with my Elemnt Bolt/ hood buttons, which is on each occasion showing Di2 battery charge of +80% or so. On Sunday, the Elemnt showed that connection to the Di2 had been lost.

It all points to loose tubes, but they're not and I don;t see how one could suddenly come loose after being parked (carefully), against a wall.

The only other constant in this puzzle I can think of is on two occasions, the weather has been quite warm, and the bike has been in full sun whilst parked-up, for whatever significance that might have.

Any ideas?

Posts

  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,118
    Not a damaged wire somewhere in the system is it? Might be an intermittent bad connection somewhere. If you plug it in to a computer and run the E-TUBE software you can do an error check for each component. That might help. I know you said the battery is showing 80%, but if you have another one (maybe the old one) you could swap that out and run it like that to see if the symptoms appear again. Obviously if it is the older battery you’ll have to take the Bluetooth sender out of the system as it is not supported.

    If you can swap the components out one at a time you may be able to isolate a faulty component if it doesn’t show up on the system test. You need a spare for each - maybe a very understanding mate with di2 who would be happy for you to swap his components (or maybe swap yours onto his bike one at a time to prove/ disprove faults).

    Another idea would be to buy one longish wire and swap it in place of one of the current wires. You could eliminate each cable as being the source of the problem that way.

    I think dealers have more in-depth diagnostics tools available, so you could just bite the bullet and take it in to a shop, but I would be wary as they may just swap components, charging you for each one until the fault is rectified. I’ve had a car mechanic do that to me before - £600 BMW starter motor swap only for the fault to recur two days later and eventually traced to a loose battery terminal! He insisted the starter motor was faulty though anyway, surprise, surprise.

    Good luck.

    PP

    If you are anywhere near Cheshire I’d be happy for you to swap some components with mine to help diagnose.
  • Hi Pete, cheers for the thoughts.

    Nothing untoward showed up in my etube software last week when I ran an update and played about with Synchro settings. It's nothing to do with either of those things either, as the previous fault instance was before this latest etubes diagnostic.

    I'll see how it goes I guess. I've got a service centre near by, so if all else fails...

    Not too far from Cheshire actually (work in Altrincham), but hopefully it won't come to picking the system apart. Cheers!
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    could it be that left in full sun without any air cooling it you have exceeded maximum operating temperature? it may have shut down because of it? I'm not sure what if any system safety features Di2 might have.
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,118
    I guess you need to run the error check when the system is actually misbehaving for any intermittent error to show up. Anyhow, offer is there if you get to the end of your tether!

    PP
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    perhaps you have a connection that doesnt work when it expands a bit due to heat? I'd check the junction box has all cables pushed in firmly
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,118
    could it be that left in full sun without any air cooling it you have exceeded maximum operating temperature? it may have shut down because of it? I'm not sure what if any system safety features Di2 might have.

    I have read of other people experiencing this also. I don’t think it is a Di2 feature. One issue was the junction B connections, especially the one from the battery. Another is the connections to the shifters which can come lose occasionally (I had one unplug itself despite having a loose loop taped into it before the connector to allow for a little movement.

    PP
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    could it be that left in full sun without any air cooling it you have exceeded maximum operating temperature? it may have shut down because of it? I'm not sure what if any system safety features Di2 might have.

    I have read of other people experiencing this also. I don’t think it is a Di2 feature. One issue was the junction B connections, especially the one from the battery. Another is the connections to the shifters which can come lose occasionally (I had one unplug itself despite having a loose loop taped into it before the connector to allow for a little movement.

    PP

    it wouldnt surprise me. inside a nice closed circuit in the sun can get extremely hot as anyone whose sat on black leather seats wearing shorts can attest............
  • The theory of excessive heat may not sound too daft afterall.

    Dunno, but I was just looking at my ride file, and the Bolt recorded a peak temperature of 47deg C at around 49 miles into the 90 miles. That, coincidentally was when we'd stopped for a bite and prior to the connectivity being lost thereafter.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-G8g3c ... p=drivesdk
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    The theory of excessive heat may not sound too daft afterall.

    Dunno, but I was just looking at my ride file, and the Bolt recorded a peak temperature of 47deg C at around 49 miles into the 90 miles. That, coincidentally was when we'd stopped for a bite and prior to the connectivity being lost thereafter.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-G8g3c ... p=drivesdk

    imagine how much hotter it would have been on the inside!
  • The theory of excessive heat may not sound too daft afterall.

    Dunno, but I was just looking at my ride file, and the Bolt recorded a peak temperature of 47deg C at around 49 miles into the 90 miles. That, coincidentally was when we'd stopped for a bite and prior to the connectivity being lost thereafter.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-G8g3c ... p=drivesdk

    imagine how much hotter it would have been on the inside!

    Yep, lithium cell in a black carbon seat tube in full sun for iro an hour. Hmmm....
  • The theory of excessive heat may not sound too daft afterall.

    Dunno, but I was just looking at my ride file, and the Bolt recorded a peak temperature of 47deg C at around 49 miles into the 90 miles. That, coincidentally was when we'd stopped for a bite and prior to the connectivity being lost thereafter.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-G8g3c ... p=drivesdk

    imagine how much hotter it would have been on the inside!

    Yep, lithium cell in a black carbon seat post in full sun for iro an hour. Hmmm....
  • Taken from manual:

    • The operating temperature ranges for the battery are given below. Do not use the battery in temperatures outside these ranges. If the battery is used
    or stored in temperatures which are outside these ranges, fire, injury or problems with operation may occur.
    1. During discharge: –10°C - 50°C
    2. During charging: 0°C - 45°C

    So theoretically, if the external Bolt sensor was reading 47 Deg in the sun, then the internal battery could well have been reading +50 Deg

    For me, seems more plausible than any other connection issue now.

    Note to self: park in the shade...
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Taken from manual:

    • The operating temperature ranges for the battery are given below. Do not use the battery in temperatures outside these ranges. If the battery is used
    or stored in temperatures which are outside these ranges, fire, injury or problems with operation may occur.
    1. During discharge: –10°C - 50°C
    2. During charging: 0°C - 45°C

    So theoretically, if the external Bolt sensor was reading 47 Deg in the sun, then the internal battery could well have been reading +50 Deg

    For me, seems more plausible than any other connection issue now.

    Note to self: park in the shade...

    Sounds like a reasonable conclusion :)
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,118
    Hmm, interesting. Never suffered it in Cheshire that’s for sure! :D Although next week is looking good!!! 8)

    PP
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