Brachycephalic dogs

I’m not a dog person, I’ve never owned one apart from having a golden retriever for six months when I was about eight and I really didn’t like it

However a friend of my wife’s has a bulldog and every time it runs in from the garden it has that really heavy and laboured breathing that you hear from a really fat person

I blame Crufts, it really isn't that difficult to choose a docile, healthy, faithful breed

There's healthier breeds but like most mammals there's defects in all to differing degrees. There's attempts by breeders to breed it out.

The English bulldog has breeders trying to breed out the KC standard and return the breed to its agile, athletic and fighting dog physique it had a hundred or more years ago. It was once a healthy, fighting dog, tall in stature capable of baiting a specially bred bull.

My dog's breed is border terrier. One of the more healthy breeds but it has shaking puppy syndrome. The breed associations have been working with researchers to develop a genetic test which became live last couple of years. Any found testing positive gets neutered or the breeder doesn't breed from it.

KC has had systems in place to minimise inbreeding but they're not helping by creating unhealthy and unrealistic breed standards.

There are some exceptions. The jack Russell breed association resisted creation of a Jr breed standard for many decades. Reason they didn't want it to effect the working character of this game dog. Eventually it became the parsons terrier and a breed standard was written that ensures it will always be a working breed capable of doing its work.

BTW there are only 3 KC breed standards that allow for the dog to compete with scars. These are all terriers. IIRC Parsons, Norfolk and I think a beddlington terrier.

This leads to my advice in dog breed choice. Always choose one with two breeding populations, a show breed and a working breed. Generally you'll get a healthy dog by getting the working version.

Such breeds are Labrador, cocker, springer (all versions), etc.

Other than that Google breed health. Our breed of choice, border terrier, is considered a healthy pedigree. We have a KC registered, neutered female that's just over a year old. What an amazing breed! But I'm not biased, at all!!!!

To mirror the sentiment of the OP I would like to ask why the KC hasn't been prosecuted for animal cruelty on light of the fact their breed standards are creating unhealthy breeds? Put simply if the KC got prosecuted I bet they'd change all breed standards pretty much overnight.

One last point. Cross breeds like the cockapoo are mongrels. Stop trying to breedify them or soften the image by giving them a name or calling them cross breeds. They're a mix of two pedigree breeds so they're a mongrel in my book.

That's not too say there's anything necessarily wrong with that. Just that creating a fake breed or bigging up their image is only going to create a fashion / trend. Once it's a fashion or trend you get puppy farmers pumping out sick animals. That then becomes very wrong.

Tangled Metal wrote:

Cross breeds like the cockapoo are mongrels. Stop trying to breedify them or soften the image by giving them a name or calling them cross breeds. They're a mix of two pedigree breeds so they're a mongrel in my book.

Errr... exactly which breeds is it that weren't created by cross-breeding? Otherwise what we'd all have is wolves on leads.

But needless to say, if you haven't got a Collie, I'm not sure you've really got a dog at all ;-)

bompington wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Cross breeds like the cockapoo are mongrels. Stop trying to breedify them or soften the image by giving them a name or calling them cross breeds. They're a mix of two pedigree breeds so they're a mongrel in my book.

Errr... exactly which breeds is it that weren't created by cross-breeding? Otherwise what we'd all have is wolves on leads.

But needless to say, if you haven't got a Collie, I'm not sure you've really got a dog at all ;-)

Breeds are developed for creating a standard. Right now cross breeds are just random mixtures. IF the cockapoo breeders got together and created a uniformity to the cockapoo (could have a toy, standard and giant variety of course) then I would argue for recognition of it as a breed.

Right now you have a big variety on size, character and physical appearance. It's a mongrel because it's a wild, wild west of breeding with only the breeds mated fixed.

YMMV but it's a difference right there.

Robots are the way forward. Any shape, personality you want. No sh1t!

I think you're right about the show community. Just looking at gundog breeds which have different breeding populations. The show breed is a ridiculous mass of fur that would just get matted on a shoot. They're also not as athletic in their gait and behaviour. Different sizes too. It's like a different breed, one still with its ability to do the job and one not fit for intended purpose. I'm thinking of cocker spaniels here. There's quite a few near me (dog walk canal route) and I see examples of both breeding populations. All nice dogs but there's something special in a good looking gun dog running around into all the scents. Compared to a show bred cocker that's shuffling around like a fat lapdog (even if it's not actually unhealthy or unfit).

I know a Labrador breeder who went for good gundog stock. Result of going to a good stud dog (and a well bred female) was a natural gundog with the full set of instincts that make a very good dog it's hardwired in to the dog. He's also what the young street kids call "hench"! She gets shooters offering her silly money for it. It is good to see such a dog when you compare it with the show Labrador dogs. They're bigger and not as athletic. Still big and bouncy but there's a clear difference.

These gundogs and terriers that are still bred as show dogs or field / gun dogs show the good and bad in breeding.

If you want a gundog breed with pedigree then look for FTCh in front of the ancestors not ShCh. You'll probably get a very active and healthy dog that's just what the breed should be. If you can't handle that then you should look to another breed because IMHO there should only be the field champion breeding pool because that's what the dog was bred for.

Robert88 wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

We have a Cretan Hound, rescued by the wife at great expense four years ago from...Crete. I reckon he must be one of the rarest breeds in the UK. We’ve tried to track down other owners but we’ve had no luck. He’s an amazing beast, just like his history.

Chapeau! My sister in law rescued a Peloponnesian Sheepdog years ago. Just a puppy when they adopted it.

Anyway, greatdivide, I guess your Cretan Hound will have an EU passport long after you will.

Cheers Robert88. It was all my wife’s work. He arrived with his pal who looks like a collie / spaniel cross. The two of them had been roaming the wee village that we always visit and she just decided one night that she’d rescue them. Heroic effort.

Never thought about their EU passports! The lucky b@stards!!!

Robert88 wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

We have a Cretan Hound, rescued by the wife at great expense four years ago from...Crete. I reckon he must be one of the rarest breeds in the UK. We’ve tried to track down other owners but we’ve had no luck. He’s an amazing beast, just like his history.

Chapeau! My sister in law rescued a Peloponnesian Sheepdog years ago. Just a puppy when they adopted it.

Anyway, greatdivide, I guess your Cretan Hound will have an EU passport long after you will.

I don't understand adopting dogs from abroad, there's plenty of dogs in the UK in need of homes, and removes the risk of bringing a non-endemic disease into the country... just seems daft.

thegreatdivide wrote:

Angry Bird wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

We have a Cretan Hound, rescued by the wife at great expense four years ago from...Crete. I reckon he must be one of the rarest breeds in the UK. We’ve tried to track down other owners but we’ve had no luck. He’s an amazing beast, just like his history.

Chapeau! My sister in law rescued a Peloponnesian Sheepdog years ago. Just a puppy when they adopted it.

Anyway, greatdivide, I guess your Cretan Hound will have an EU passport long after you will.

I don't understand adopting dogs from abroad, there's plenty of dogs in the UK in need of homes, and removes the risk of bringing a non-endemic disease into the country... just seems daft.

Who says we haven’t adopted dogs from the UK before? All dogs that are brought into the UK from the EU require vaccinations and 21 days quarantine, plus the previously mention EU pet passport with said vaccinations stamped, otherwise they won’t get into the country.

Yes, but there are very real concerns about the enforcement of such measures and fraudulent activity. Plenty of money for people to make revoking dogs from other countries to the UK... regardless of whatever paperwork they do or do not have, it still doesn’t mean they aren’t carrying non-endemic disease into the country... and we have a plentiful supply of dogs in need of homes in the UK already.

Angry Bird wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Angry Bird wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

We have a Cretan Hound, rescued by the wife at great expense four years ago from...Crete. I reckon he must be one of the rarest breeds in the UK. We’ve tried to track down other owners but we’ve had no luck. He’s an amazing beast, just like his history.

Chapeau! My sister in law rescued a Peloponnesian Sheepdog years ago. Just a puppy when they adopted it.

Anyway, greatdivide, I guess your Cretan Hound will have an EU passport long after you will.

I don't understand adopting dogs from abroad, there's plenty of dogs in the UK in need of homes, and removes the risk of bringing a non-endemic disease into the country... just seems daft.

Who says we haven’t adopted dogs from the UK before? All dogs that are brought into the UK from the EU require vaccinations and 21 days quarantine, plus the previously mention EU pet passport with said vaccinations stamped, otherwise they won’t get into the country.

Yes, but there are very real concerns about the enforcement of such measures and fraudulent activity. Plenty of money for people to make revoking dogs from other countries to the UK... regardless of whatever paperwork they do or do not have, it still doesn’t mean they aren’t carrying non-endemic disease into the country... and we have a plentiful supply of dogs in need of homes in the UK already.

There is a serious issue of the import of foreign diseases from import of foreign animals as well as UK animals going overseas and bringing them back. Was an article recently in the veterinary times. Sadly can't find the article online, but some similar ones are here.

The UK rules on quarantine / import export aren't bad but can't do everything, especially if your animal doesn't show symptoms.

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/screen- ... ts-warned/

https://inews.co.uk/news/rescue-dog-vet ... se-import/

https://www.bva.co.uk/news-campaigns-an ... vets-warn/

giantorangedale wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Sorry but one more point. Huskys are working dogs. If you've not got the means to take them out sledging IMHO you have no place owning them.

I've seen two panting for their lives one late winter when the weather turned from snow and cold to heat and snow in less than a few days. One was lying down on a patch of compacted snow to cool down. They really were struggling and it wasn't even summer.

Inappropriate dogs for the UK IMHO so don't get one.

Do they not have summer in Alaska[?]

They do. However, they'll be "lucky" to see low 20s, depending where they are.

Ben6899 wrote:

giantorangedale wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Sorry but one more point. Huskys are working dogs. If you've not got the means to take them out sledging IMHO you have no place owning them.

I've seen two panting for their lives one late winter when the weather turned from snow and cold to heat and snow in less than a few days. One was lying down on a patch of compacted snow to cool down. They really were struggling and it wasn't even summer.

Inappropriate dogs for the UK IMHO so don't get one.

Do they not have summer in Alaska[?]

They do. However, they'll be "lucky" to see low 20s, depending where they are.

My point was that they're a serious working dog not a pet in the traditional sense. They're equipped to work hard at low temperatures. A strong instinct. Add in the fact they're bred for a region that doesn't go from a little below zero to mid 30s like the UK can go to. When these dogs are dying in the UK at 36 degrees Celsius they're thriving at high teens possibly low 20s in a warm summer in alaska or siberia.

Round here you see them being walked around the streets of town. I'm possibly being very unkind but the people I see with these dogs tend to be overweight and not fit enough to do even the 10k steps often quoted as the recommended minimum level of daily exercise. So not only are the dogs living outside of the climate they're bred for they're also getting nowhere near enough exercise.

Tangled Metal wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

giantorangedale wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Sorry but one more point. Huskys are working dogs. If you've not got the means to take them out sledging IMHO you have no place owning them.

I've seen two panting for their lives one late winter when the weather turned from snow and cold to heat and snow in less than a few days. One was lying down on a patch of compacted snow to cool down. They really were struggling and it wasn't even summer.

Inappropriate dogs for the UK IMHO so don't get one.

Do they not have summer in Alaska[?]

They do. However, they'll be "lucky" to see low 20s, depending where they are.

My point was that they're a serious working dog not a pet in the traditional sense. They're equipped to work hard at low temperatures. A strong instinct. Add in the fact they're bred for a region that doesn't go from a little below zero to mid 30s like the UK can go to. When these dogs are dying in the UK at 36 degrees Celsius they're thriving at high teens possibly low 20s in a warm summer in alaska or siberia.

Round here you see them being walked around the streets of town. I'm possibly being very unkind but the people I see with these dogs tend to be overweight and not fit enough to do even the 10k steps often quoted as the recommended minimum level of daily exercise. So not only are the dogs living outside of the climate they're bred for they're also getting nowhere near enough exercise.

Yep.
Jerry (see profile pic) was bitten quite badly by a husky, which belonged to a fat woman who would take it for a slow half mile walk most days.
It was tethered to a car bumper and actually broke its lead when it saw Jerry (a real softie) walk by 30m away, and gave him a bite that needed quite a few stitches.

On the other hand, go to the sled dog centre in the Cairngorms to see happy and fulfilled huskies doing like they're supposed to.

But pets? No.