Help I need smaller gears - what can I do? A GUIDE

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  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,011
    Red27 wrote:
    I'm new to road biking but have been mtbing for 25 years. First thing I noticed going up hills is how different the gearing is as I expected the road bike to be easier to climb than the much heavier mtb. My MTB has 1x11 with a 32 chainring and 10-42 cassette. My Trek Domane's smallest gear is 34 chainring and 32 cassette which is much more difficult on steep climbs. I literally just got the road bike so I'm sure it's premature to change anything but I believe my gearing is the best setup Shimano offers for hills, is it not? I live in Brevard, NC so there's lots of climbing but I put a lot of miles on trails each week so it's not like I'm new to cycling. I'm sure I'll get stronger but what options do I have with Shimano for getting something similar to what I have on my mtb for the steep hills? I think I read somewhere that the new Ultegra is going to have an option for more teeth on the cassette? Or is it easier to put a smaller chainring on? On flat ground I never use the smaller chainring anyways so I don't think going smaller would effect me at all. Or, should I just go to 1x11 like my mtb because that thing climbs like a billygoat? Thanks!

    For a 1x11: Any ratio much below 4:1 (i.e. 44 front 11 smallest on the back) will limit your speed on the flat/downslopes, so I can't see this working. Also a single front means that you are going to have a lot of big gaps between gears, which makes it more difficult to maintain a steady cadence. I don't think road wheels can take the 10tooth cassettes either.

    It should be possible to use your compact chainset with some MTB cassettes but you may need a longer derailleur

    You can gain a bit by going to a triple chainset but this is expensive and you won't gain massive amounts (about 1 gear's worth).

    I had a similar shock to you when I got my first road bike, but after a few months I was climbing the same hills on the equivalent of 2 gears higher.
  • Red27
    Red27 Posts: 26
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. It just feels so different than mtb. Heck my driveway is so steep that I can't even go up it seated on the road bike but can cruise up it easy on the mtb but it's only a 1/4 mile long. If I hit a long climb that's even close to that steep the only way I'll make it up on the roadie is by walking. Hopefully in a couple months I'm in a different place strength wise. Should make mtbing a breeze after riding the road!
  • lesfirth
    lesfirth Posts: 1,382
    Red27 wrote:
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. It just feels so different than mtb. Heck my driveway is so steep that I can't even go up it seated on the road bike but can cruise up it easy on the mtb but it's only a 1/4 mile long. If I hit a long climb that's even close to that steep the only way I'll make it up on the roadie is by walking. Hopefully in a couple months I'm in a different place strength wise. Should make mtbing a breeze after riding the road!

    mmmmm. Do you have a gate keeper's lodge at the entrance to your drive? Maybe you could get a servant to give you push . :)
  • Dagless
    Dagless Posts: 12
    I'm wanting to do the opposite and change to a smaller cassette (larger gearing). I currently have a triple on the front (48-38-28) and 8-speed 11-32 on the back but I am taking most local hills on the middle ring in 4th (38-21), only occasionally dropping to the small ring.

    What I am not sure on though is when going to a smaller cassette will I need to put a shorter rear derailleur/shorten chain as well? I would guess it's not a necessity like when going to a larger cassette but if I don't change will the chain be more likely to come off or bounce around?

    I will be looking for a proper road bike in the future, which will be for leisure and thus needs hill gearing, and will keep my current bike for the commute, so ultimately I could probably go for an 11-23, but in the meantime this is my only bike and I am exploring more so was thinking 11-28 for now, which will still have that 1:1 emergency gear should I need it. (I would probably be good with 11-25 but they don't seem to exist in 8-speed, and I don't think I could sacrifice the 11T sprocket as I love pedalling fast downhill)
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,011
    ^you could take a few links off, but it's essentially the same as using your existing higher gears. Your derailleur will be fine, a shorter cage would theoretically give smoother shifting but you probably won't notice. I think The parallelogram is steeper on long cage to keep the jockey wheels more parallel to the rings as you shift across the block. Adjusting the b screw might be useful.
  • Dagless
    Dagless Posts: 12
    Mad_Malx wrote:
    ^you could take a few links off, but it's essentially the same as using your existing higher gears. Your derailleur will be fine, a shorter cage would theoretically give smoother shifting but you probably won't notice. I think The parallelogram is steeper on long cage to keep the jockey wheels more parallel to the rings as you shift across the block. Adjusting the b screw might be useful.

    Thanks. Just looked up the b-screw, I had never heard of it :oops: , as I understand it I just adjust that so the first jockey is close but not touching when in 1st gear.
    So shortening the chain with the same derailleur won't cause problems with the smaller sprockets? (which will have the same number of teeth as I have now)
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,011
    The b screw moves the position of the top jockey wheel nearer or further from the biggest cog (lowest gear). This should be about 3-6 mm when in your lowest gear (small front big back) - use a hex key to judge the gap. but I never find it makes that much difference.
    Edit- your new post is correct

    Chain doesn't need to be so long, so you can shorten, but it's probably not going to matter.
  • Dagless
    Dagless Posts: 12
    Thanks, I'll probably leave the chain and see how it feels... or having said that when I get round to buying & fitting a new cassette I will have done around 2500 miles so I will may just buy a new chain.
  • alim0229
    alim0229 Posts: 24
    Hello there

    I currently have an 11-34 Deore cassette on the back of my road bike with a long cage M771 rear derailleur which works fine for the gears. Have compact crank of 50/34. Bike otherwise has 10 speed 105

    I would like to go further down the gearing ideally and get a 40 cassette on the back.

    How could I make this happen?
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    You already have a 1:1 low gear (34:34), which is at the low limit of all "normal" road bikes, no standard solution that I'm aware of. You'd need to find a x:40 cassette that fits (may be off the mountain bike range) and see if your M771 has enough capacity for 50+40-34-x.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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  • cld531c
    cld531c Posts: 517
    Hi

    Has anyone changed from a 50/34 and 11-28 (11 speed) to a 30 or 32T cassette?
    Any appreciable difference? My riding partner is really struggling on the hills and considering swapping out for a 30, I suggested they may aswell go the whole hog and go 32 but wondered what the difference was like IRL as to whether a 30 would be worth the bother.
    NB Not talking Hardknott Pass style hills, but knee trouble forcing them to stay seated rather than get out of the saddle when things ramp up a bit.
    And dont say Rule No 5, they really are trying and given the option would be on a 53/39 12-25 but legs wont allow!

    TIA
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,011
    cld531c wrote:
    Hi

    Has anyone changed from a 50/34 and 11-28 (11 speed) to a 30 or 32T cassette?
    Any appreciable difference? My riding partner is really struggling on the hills and considering swapping out for a 30, I suggested they may aswell go the whole hog and go 32 but wondered what the difference was like IRL as to whether a 30 would be worth the bother.
    NB Not talking Hardknott Pass style hills, but knee trouble forcing them to stay seated rather than get out of the saddle when things ramp up a bit.
    And dont say Rule No 5, they really are trying and given the option would be on a 53/39 12-25 but legs wont allow!

    TIA

    Going from 28 to 30 is only going to be a small help and barely worth the bother. I'd go 32, but you need to check your derailleur can manage it and you will a few more links on the chain.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    cld531c wrote:
    Hi

    Has anyone changed from a 50/34 and 11-28 (11 speed) to a 30 or 32T cassette?
    Any appreciable difference?

    I've gone from 12-29 to 11-32 using the Alpe D'Huez Road Fairy, yes there is an appreciable difference especially when your legs are tired.

    28-30 is hardly worth the effort but 28-32 will make quite a difference on long or steep climbs.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • cld531c
    cld531c Posts: 517
    Thanks, thought so....never thought he would put a compact chainset or 28T cog so will suggest 32 rather than 30.
    Does the Road fairy negate the need for a long cage mech? Might be a cheaper alternative if only 'temporary'.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    cld531c wrote:
    Thanks, thought so....never thought he would put a compact chainset or 28T cog so will suggest 32 rather than 30.
    Does the Road fairy negate the need for a long cage mech? Might be a cheaper alternative if only 'temporary'.

    Well kind of. It moves the derailleur outwards so can accommodate a larger sprocket. I'm not sure if by doing this and the subsequent change in geometry, it also adds a bit of chain take up as well. I suspect if it does, its negligible.

    My super record RD which is designed for a max 29T sprocket, *just* about accommodates 34-50 and 11-32 which is a difference of 37T. You might find that if the chain length is set for big-chainring and biggest sprocket, then on small-small the chain is a bit slack but those gears are redundant anyway.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • cld531c
    cld531c Posts: 517
    cheers
  • burnthesheep
    burnthesheep Posts: 675
    Red27 wrote:
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. It just feels so different than mtb. Heck my driveway is so steep that I can't even go up it seated on the road bike but can cruise up it easy on the mtb but it's only a 1/4 mile long. If I hit a long climb that's even close to that steep the only way I'll make it up on the roadie is by walking. Hopefully in a couple months I'm in a different place strength wise. Should make mtbing a breeze after riding the road!

    Hello fellow NC resident.

    I did AOMM on a 34 and 28t. The longer climbs in NC aren't very steep. They'll be like your driveway for a very short time, then ease off.

    I'd say a 34 32t being about the most you'd ever need here. In the meantime, just plan your routes to limit the max grade until you're good to go.

    If you encounter a super steep part, so long as traffic isn't an issue and you pay attention.......you can "paper boy" the bike up the climb. Zig zag the bike a little bit back and forth to artificially reduce the grade.
  • knightlore21
    knightlore21 Posts: 44
    I put a SRAM 11-36 cassette on my CAAD12 last weekend - this replaced an 11-32 I had in there (I had already swapped my derailleur from short cage ultegra to Medium cage to fit the 32) - needed a Wolf Tooth road link to move derailleur further away from Cassette but did not change length of chain and works brilliantly. I reckon I could get a 40t cassette on comfortably but expect I would need to use a longer chain in that instance.

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