Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    edited 30 January
    The RR511 should be more expensive but may not be but it is heavier by 30g is it. The main difference though in the internal profile. You should be able to notice the raised shelf on the kinlin vs the flat shelf on the DT rim. On the DT rim friction and the gluing effect of the sealant will try to retain a tubeless tyre with no air but the retention may be weak. with the kinlin a tubeless tyre has a hard time unseating because of the inclined shelf. So one rim is better for tubeless tyres than the other as I think unseating is bad. both can be run tubeless though. I have to say that because some people misinterpret my comments as black and white where as it more shades of grey. also not the difference in bead hook shape and orientation. The DT swiss rim bead hook will put more stress on the tyre bead than the kinlin rim will.

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    XR31-RT-cross-section-grande.jpg
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Alfa_mAlfa_m Posts: 3
    I'm currently thinking of purchasing a descent set of summer wheels for my CAAD12. This is my case:
    - Actual wheels are Maddux 2.0 disc (6-hole), on the new set I would prefer centerlock
    - I have no intention to race or to have real high speed group rides => focus shouldn't be on aero
    - I live in a region with some short but rather steep slopes (Flemish Ardennes), a lot of them are "cobblestoned"... => weight is a factor but not at all cost due to the cobbles
    - I'm only weighing 68kg so the wheels won't have to endure much rider-induced stress
    - Chainstay clearance is limited, the max tire size on my bike is 28c
    - Yearly mileage: 4000mi

    With these criteria in mind I started searching, for now three options have caught my attention:
    1. JRA Gecko
    2. JRA Mahi Mahi 30mm
    3. Hunt 30 Carbon Aero Disc

    What would be your weapon of choice? Correspond the characteristics of the wheels on my shortlist with my selection criteria, or are there some hidden catches? Or would you go for alternatives (budget is approx. 900£)?
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    30mm and aero. That a stretch. 30mm is not even mid depth.

    If you spending £900 on wheels get sero wheels they at least will improve your pace. that means 45mm to 5mm deep.

    With carbon there is no point in having shallower unless your using gravel tyres which are not aero so a shallow rim is fine then.

    With the 30mm deep carbon rims well they are not that stiff, low spoke count so fatigue maybe more of an issue for some. such wheels can be light and feel good to ride on but do jack all for your pace so have you spent wisely?

    Get deeper aero wheels. You may not be racing but if your spending that kind of money you might as well or noth bother at all.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    I need a new spoke key, as my second DT Swiss has split and superglue doesn't seem to hold the two parts together. NO MORE DT KEYS

    I have noticed the yellow Sapim key is 3.45 mm, which doesn't seem right for Sapim/DT nipples... can anyone comment or recommend something else?

    PS: I don't want a red Spokey, I have one for emergency road repair, but it's not a good tool
  • arlowoodarlowood Posts: 2,303
    I need a new spoke key, as my second DT Swiss has split and superglue doesn't seem to hold the two parts together. NO MORE DT KEYS

    I have noticed the yellow Sapim key is 3.45 mm, which doesn't seem right for Sapim/DT nipples... can anyone comment or recommend something else?

    PS: I don't want a red Spokey, I have one for emergency road repair, but it's not a good tool

    Park Tools Black (3.23mm) claims to be for DT square nipples amongst others

    https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Park-T ... lsrc=aw.ds
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,413
    What's wrong with a red spokey then? Have you ever managed to break one of them?
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    the sapim key fits Sapim just fine after all it sapims tool for there nipples. It all I use. Never use DT Swiss nipples because I dont have any.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    timothyw wrote:
    What's wrong with a red spokey then? Have you ever managed to break one of them?

    No, but it's not a good key... it's a bit tight and multiplies the time required to do any job.
    The old type DT Swiss, which looks exactly the same as the Spokey was the best I ever owned, but eventually the square section wore off.
    The new DT ones, made of metal are total rubbish as the two parts come apart after a while. I got the first replaced under warranty, but this one is a few years old
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    the sapim key fits Sapim just fine after all it sapims tool for there nipples. It all I use. Never use DT Swiss nipples because I dont have any.

    OK, so I'll get the yellow one :D
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,413
    Fair enough, no argument that the spokey can be a bit stiff to get on and off the nipples, I always figured snug = good fit = less likely to round off nipples.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    timothyw wrote:
    Fair enough, no argument that the spokey can be a bit stiff to get on and off the nipples, I always figured snug = good fit = less likely to round off nipples.

    Well, you want the happy balance, the one that doesn't round nipples and yet slides in like a glove...
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    The sapim key is 4 sided and has never rounded a nipple off. I do break nipples occasionaly when they get the thread bind a bit but never rounded one with eh sapim key.

    If fits like a glove too.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • wayne17wayne17 Posts: 32
    edited 1 February
    Just bought a new bike, tarmac sl4 in rocket red and my wheels halo mercury white rims on hope mono rs hubs 28/32h look a bit hipster on it so I am looking to replace rims.im 185cm tall,87kg.
    Was thinking of getting some light bicycle 45mm carbon clinchers, but I wonder if 28/32h in these is overkill? Would 20/32 be better or Would I be better off getting alloy rims either open pro ust or kinkin xr31t.
  • tonysjtonysj Posts: 290
    Guys not sure if this is the place to post this question but I have a mate who rides a Tandem with his missus and has asked if you can get wheels that are Tubeless compatible for a Tandem as he wants to try them out?
    I run tubeless and hes impressed with the durability and thinks he would like to go TL on his tandem first.
    Anyone got any advice on this slightly off target post.
    Regards.
    Tony.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    tonysj wrote:
    Guys not sure if this is the place to post this question but I have a mate who rides a Tandem with his missus and has asked if you can get wheels that are Tubeless compatible for a Tandem as he wants to try them out?
    I run tubeless and hes impressed with the durability and thinks he would like to go TL on his tandem first.
    Anyone got any advice on this slightly off target post.
    Regards.
    Tony.

    Most of the TL tyres I have used have a weight limit of 70 kg, which roughly means 140 kg on the bike, which is hard to achieve on a tandem. That said, the figure is probably very conservative.

    There are pretty robust tubeless compatible rims around and with 36 holes
  • tonysjtonysj Posts: 290
    tonysj wrote:
    Guys not sure if this is the place to post this question but I have a mate who rides a Tandem with his missus and has asked if you can get wheels that are Tubeless compatible for a Tandem as he wants to try them out?
    I run tubeless and hes impressed with the durability and thinks he would like to go TL on his tandem first.
    Anyone got any advice on this slightly off target post.
    Regards.
    Tony.

    Most of the TL tyres I have used have a weight limit of 70 kg, which roughly means 140 kg on the bike, which is hard to achieve on a tandem. That said, the figure is probably very conservative.

    There are pretty robust tubeless compatible rims around and with 36 holes
    Thanks. I don't think he's concerned about reducing weight or anything out and out performance wise. He's just looking at puncture sealing and avoiding having to repair a puncture watched over by his OH saying can't you get it sorted I'm getting cold lol.
    I looked on MB site, cycleclinic, but wasn't sure of tubeless wheels suitable for a tandem. No doubt he will comment/assist shortly.
    T.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    I don't think you got the message in my post. Weight limit is for safety, the tyre is designed to carry a load NOT exceeding 70 kg, therefore unsuitable for a tandem where the combined mass of 2 riders plus the mass of the cycle itself easily exceeds 70 kg per tyre (140 kg in total)
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,413
    And it's a fair point, I'm a very heavy rider and had a tubeless tyre at maximum spec pressure spontaneously fail on me (sidewall blew out, immediately lost all air pressure)

    Unless the tyre is specced for the load I wouldn't use it on a tandem.

    Although it is possible the two of them are lighter than I am...
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,899
    wayne17 wrote:
    Just bought a new bike, tarmac sl4 in rocket red and my wheels halo mercury white rims on hope mono rs hubs 28/32h look a bit hipster on it so I am looking to replace rims.im 185cm tall,87kg.
    Was thinking of getting some light bicycle 45mm carbon clinchers, but I wonder if 28/32h in these is overkill? Would 20/32 be better or Would I be better off getting alloy rims either open pro ust or kinkin xr31t.
    Great hubs and decent rims but 28/32 is overkill for those rims. The end product would be a decent stiff wheelset but somewhat overbuilt.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    If you have the choice, I would say in your case 24/28 would be spot on with those rims...
  • ti_yredti_yred Posts: 45
    While I'm recovering from being T-boned by a Peugeot a few weeks ago, I'm pondering what to do regarding replacement wheels. Instead of having another winter bike built up, I think I'm going to simply have a second set of wheels for my Ti to use as winter wheels.

    I've had two sets of Open Pros on the older Hope Mono RS hubs (one of which has a bendy front rim now) and they've been the perfect wheels for the scrubby Herefordshire roads in winter. I am however, thinking of having a pair of the UST Open Pros instead of the Open Pro clinchers. Is it worth the extra few quid to change to tubeless or should I stick with what I know best? Never used tubeless so have no opinion on them. Would be interested to hear others views on whether there is any benefit to changing...
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    edited 5 February
    Many tubed tyres have a 70kg weight limit too. Would The schwalbe marathons supreme be a suitable tyre?

    Ryde do the Andare 321 tubeless disc brake which has a 180kg weight limit and 36h drilling.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    edited 5 February
    the new Mavic rim is nice rim. You can use tubed tyres with it but an IRC, Hutchinson or Mavic tubeless tyre fit very well. Pick the tyre that best suits you. Its just like tubed tyres they are all different.

    Also look at the kinlin xr22t but 32h is out of stock with me anyway. The XR26T rim is kinlins mid depth offering. DT Swiss r460 has easy tyre fitting but that why I don't like it much for tubeless tyres.

    The Ambrosio p20 is another good reason.

    If you like silver box section the Ryde have the R13.

    Lots of tubeless options that retain the tyre well.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ti_yredti_yred Posts: 45
    Ti yred the new Mavic rim is nice rim. You can use tubed tyres with it but an IRC, Hutchinson or Mavic tubeless tyre fit very well. Pick the tyre that best suits you. Its just like tubed tyres they are all different.

    Also look at the kinlin xr22t but 32h is out of stock with me anyway. The XR26T rim is kinlins mid depth offering. DT Swiss r460 has easy tyre fitting but that why I don't like it much for tubeless tyres.

    The Ambrosio p20 is another good reason.

    If you like silver box section the Ryde have the R13.

    Lots of tubeless options that retain the tyre well.

    Thanks for the info. Lots to have a look at and ponder over. It might be me but despite the fairly mediocre conditions of our rural roads round here (and including the vast amount of debris left over from the 3 months of winter hedge cutting) I've been pretty fortunate with punctures and they are pretty rare (please don't let me have jinxed that now)...so with that in mind, I wouldn't simply go tubeless for that reason. I'm supposing another reason would be to be able to run lower pressures for the odd occasion I go down a rougher track or fireroad etc. I usually run my clinchers at 85 psi or thereabouts.

    Any other advantages for tubeless over clinchers for my winter riding?

    Cheers

    Paul
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    For me it comes down to comfort and the ability to repair a tyre externally, normally for the life of the tyre that's the bonus.

    I also like race tyres. I can't use Vittoria corsa's all year round. I would but they wear out too quickly and puncture so readily for me at least.

    IRC, Hutchinson fusion and that new conti tubeless tyres all offer race tyre feel but with longer life. The contis are wearing quite quick though. You can ride them at 40 psi too. There are some team riders who race and train on tubeless tyres at 50 psi.

    I am sure it's saving me money too as I used to go through inner tubes at a frightening rate and tyres too. However I am also a tyre snob. I have never bought a tyre because it is cheap as some do. The tyre is the most important part of the bike to me.

    If you don't puncture much then the only thing that you will notice is more space in your back pocket and a bike that feels like it shod with vittoria Corsa's.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ti_yredti_yred Posts: 45
    For me it comes down to comfort and the ability to repair a tyre externally, normally for the life of the tyre that's the bonus.

    I also like race tyres. I can't use Vittoria corsa's all year round. I would but they wear out too quickly and puncture so readily for me at least.

    IRC, Hutchinson fusion and that new conti tubeless tyres all offer race tyre feel but with longer life. The contis are wearing quite quick though. You can ride them at 40 psi too. There are some team riders who race and train on tubeless tyres at 50 psi.

    I am sure it's saving me money too as I used to go through inner tubes at a frightening rate and tyres too. However I am also a tyre snob. I have never bought a tyre because it is cheap as some do. The tyre is the most important part of the bike to me.

    If you don't puncture much then the only thing that you will notice is more space in your back pocket and a bike that feels like it shod with vittoria Corsa's.

    Thank you. From what you say, and what I've read, comfort and wear are two very big ticks in the tubeless box. I'm always happy to try something new presuming it will benefit me so I think I'm leaning towards the "I'm going to give tubeless a go" in particular the open pro UST rims, which I can always use as clinchers if needs be I guess.

    Thanks for your help, much appreciated.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    most tubeless tyres are more comfortable. I have only found one that is not. The tyre you pick though will either keep you on tubeless tubeless or put you off. It shouldn't but folk seem to think that all tubeless tyres must be the same. You also need to carry tyre plugs -good ones. trying to mount a tube in a tubeless tyre on the mavic rims is a dead end, dont even bother packing one.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • wayne17wayne17 Posts: 32
    If you have the choice, I would say in your case 24/28 would be spot on with those rims...
    Yeah I think I will leave the carbon rims this time and build a set 24/28 at a later date. Have ordered a set of open pro ust rims 28/32. I have seen a couple of sets of these rims advertised 24/28h with cx Ray spokes max weight 100 kg. So my question is I assume that at 28/32 cx Ray would be ok for my 87kg or would Sapim d-light front and back or dt revolutions with dt comp rear drive side make the better Wheelset for me?
  • ti_yredti_yred Posts: 45
    most tubeless tyres are more comfortable. I have only found one that is not. The tyre you pick though will either keep you on tubeless tubeless or put you off. It shouldn't but folk seem to think that all tubeless tyres must be the same. You also need to carry tyre plugs -good ones. trying to mount a tube in a tubeless tyre on the mavic rims is a dead end, dont even bother packing one.

    Thanks very much for the info
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,947
    Choice of tyres and worms is a major factor in how you will experience tubeless. Tubeless are more faff initially to get right, more thought has to go into product selection and putting it together.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
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