Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

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  • bobonesbobones Posts: 975
    The ultralight kit does not have the big round tipped plugs, but they're really only suitable for MTB tyres so £22.60 is the still the starting point here, not £40.

    The pointed plugs in the ultralight kit may not fill a 12 mm gash as well as thicker worms, but you just use 2 of them for bigger holes. I still carry some thick worms, a spare tube and a tyre boot but I rarely get such big holes so Dynaplugs will be my first resort.

    Anyway, that review is about MTB usage where the pressures are much lower than road. You have said in the past that worms can provide a permanent repair, but they'd need to hold firm at 6 bar if that were to be the case for me, and they don't. Dynaplugs do hold easily at 6 or 7 bar, which makes them far more suitable for road use in my book, and I am looking for a permanent repair for small holes that don't close with sealant alone: anything worse I will attempt to patch or just bin. If Dynaplugs can save me whipping off a tyre to fit a tube or patch from the inside then they are well worth the small premium over worms.
  • I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    As I said I have only had one big worm blow out and that blew out after I got home. Every other holes that has happened on a tyre on the road and there have been many (probably about 12 this year) have been plugged for the life of the tyre at 80 psi. I'm not the only one either. So either we are using different plugs, inserting them differently or your punctures are bigger than mine. If dynaplugs work for you great keep using them but you me they are an over expensive solution to a problem that has a cheaper solution.

    The only occasions I have had to resort to a tube is before I knew about plugs and recently when non IRC tyres which are not as tight have unseated on my velocity wheels when they have lost all air. Plugs don't help there as I can reinflate the tyre. Without a tube. A new set of wheels is the solution.

    Zef, I can remove the collar on my setups and it won't leak but ride the wheel without that collar for a while and you will get a leak in the end. I don't think Mavic and I actually offer different advise. Your just interpreting it differently.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • zefszefs Posts: 484
    I just push the valve from the top and then tighten the nut as much as it's needed by hand without letting the valve move. If it starts moving downwards I think it is too much as the valve seal can be damaged by the rim hole. But yeah worth checking over time to see if the nut gets loose, mine hasn't.

    About the worms popping off only used a Genuine Innovations small one and it got me home, 80 psi. A solution could be to remove the worm at home and use another one but with glue (rubber cement) that comes with the kits and let it sit over night, I am guessing this would hold better.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    I stopped using gi worms as I had a few a couple of years ago that pushed out. Bobones has tried glue. I have stopped carrying it myself as I no longer need it.

    Bobones has never said what plugs he has tried or the how thick they are. He just claims they don't work. That kind of detail is important.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • zefszefs Posts: 484
    Yeah they need to be as big as the hole in the tire to work, if you use a mtb worm on a 3mm cut you will ruin the tire. The Weldtide kit I got has mtb ones so I cut them in half (not in length) but haven't tried them yet.
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 975
    Bobones has never said what plugs he has tried or the how thick they are. He just claims they don't work. That kind of detail is important.
    That's not true: viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13015799&p=20432469&hilit=weldtite#p20432469
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    I have tried pointing out not all plugs are equal and those two brands of plugs are not tacky enough in my opinion which maybe why I get more success. I don't know how many times I have repeated this. I don't use genuine innovations or weldite plug kits.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • I'd suggest if a tyre isn't self-sealing, wont take standard plugs and isn't a slashed tyre then I probably would ride it as tubeless.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    I found a rim that the maxsis padrone fits to properly, the pacenti sl23. You can still mount by hand but it goes up with compressed Air easily. The rim could not retain the tyre though so I have to carry a tube again. I had to fit this tyre again as I split an IRC Roadlite on a cycle path along the A14 yesterday. I plug got it hold 20 psi so it was rideable with care. Wife picked me up though saving me the struggle.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Your life is very adventurous, Malcolm...

    I did 600 km on a pair of battered Durano in the last 10 days... nothing to report :-)
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    Bloody cycle paths are lethal that the problem. also cycle paths next to a busy A road are covered in really sharp stuff. no such a clever route.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • kingstoniankingstonian Posts: 1,769
    First problem with tubeless this morning after probably 7000 kms, the IRC X-Guard gave out on me on my commute. There was a thin slit on the shoulder of the tyre which sealant just wouldn't fix and I tried and failed to get a worm to deal with it. Ended up limping to Evans by London Bridge, where I popped an inner tube into the tyre which will get me home.

    It is a bit of a lesson, as I really should have replaced the tyre by now so it was a problem waiting to happen.
  • First problem with tubeless this morning after probably 7000 kms, the IRC X-Guard gave out on me on my commute. There was a thin slit on the shoulder of the tyre which sealant just wouldn't fix and I tried and failed to get a worm to deal with it. Ended up limping to Evans by London Bridge, where I popped an inner tube into the tyre which will get me home.

    It is a bit of a lesson, as I really should have replaced the tyre by now so it was a problem waiting to happen.

    I got similar mileage out of a Maxxis Padrone which died the same way. Must be a tubeless thing.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • canny_ladcanny_lad Posts: 329
    Just dipped into this and it makes for interesting reading.

    I'm 2.5k miles into road tubeless with mixed results. Had a new bike built and got a set of Fulcrum Quattro Carbon DB's, initially set up with Schwalbe S One 30mm running tubeless. The front tyre is still going strong, never loses much pressure and looks hardly worn.

    The rear tyre punctured in Majorca last year but I didn't realise until boxing the bike up at the end of the trip. Eventually had to plug it as it was loosing too much air, this didn't work so new tyre was required.

    Fitted a 28mm Hutchinson storm11 All Season (couldn't get a new S One) . First impressions were good though it did lose more air between rides than the Schwalbe. It did get a sidewall puncture, fixed that with a patch but after a while it then started deflating whilst out riding. After much faffing and bottles of sealant it has a tube in it now. The Hutchinson tyre is very loose on the rim, dead easy to get off/on.

    I want a 28mm tyre for the front for the summer so am toying with a Conti GP5000TL. Hopefully it will set up tubeless but if not it too will get a tube. Seems that tubeless setup is very tyre/rim dependent.

    Not the lightest setup but unlikely to affect me too much and if the tyre blows at least it stays on the rim.

    Half tempted to re try after reading Malcolm's comments but I don't have a great deal of faith in the Hutchinson tyre, which is a shame.

    My CDF has tubeless Hutchinson Overide 35mm on DT Swiss rims and they work brilliantly, no issues whatever so far.

    Apologies for the long post
  • ajkerr73ajkerr73 Posts: 389
    Any sub £100 GP5000's in 28mm spotted yet?
  • ajkerr73 wrote:
    Any sub £100 GP5000's in 28mm spotted yet?

    £46 at Bike-Discount, get Wiggle to price match when in stock
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    Cycling weekly are doing a tubeless guide. We have had a consult. Its mostly in fitting though.

    As for plugs I had a good puncture in the gp5000tl recently. Initially the plug tried pushing out at 50psi. So I left it overnight and the sealant seemed to have glued it in place and it now hold 80 psi. I had to use the the 3.5mm Maxalami plugs

    One thing I have noticed about the conti tyre the wet grip is not that great. Its not dangerous but I find my self being quite cautious in the bends. The wet grip is adaquate really. That does not bother me too much. They are a summer dry day TT tyre or race tyre as they are very quick.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Thanks Malcolm, rather disconcerting the wet grip statement
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    Don't worry about the wet grip too much. I am comparing to the best tyres out there's. against most tyres the conti's are pretty good. I am in no hurry to remove them.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    i still think theyre too much hassle. Plugs dont do the business when theres a hole so whats the point. 20 or 50psi is very low for a road tyre and whilst you might be able to nurse it home after messing about at the road side, id rather know i can patch and replace tube and move as if nothing had happened.
  • i still think theyre too much hassle. Plugs dont do the business when theres a hole so whats the point. 20 or 50psi is very low for a road tyre and whilst you might be able to nurse it home after messing about at the road side, id rather know i can patch and replace tube and move as if nothing had happened.

    I've never had a plug that hasn't worked, and plenty that have self sealed.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    The hole has to be huge for the plug not to work. Ridden over 100 miles on 30 psi and I rode fast. There was no plug in that tyre I forgot them and the pump so I was left at the pressure it sealed at.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ajkerr73ajkerr73 Posts: 389
    The hole has to be huge for the plug not to work. Ridden over 100 miles on 30 psi and I rode fast. There was no plug in that tyre I forgot them and the pump so I was left at the pressure it sealed at.

    Have you managed to get any 50000 TL's in 28mm yet Malcolm?
  • kingstoniankingstonian Posts: 1,769
    Finding it impossible to get a seal with my new tubeless tyres. IRC x guards, followed all the instructions etc, the tyre just won’t seat itself using a track pump. I don’t have compressed air, and quite frankly everything I have read says I shouldn’t need it, but I’m now at a loss as to what to do.

    Probably am going to have to swap the cassette onto another wheel just so I can do the commute tomorrow.

    I do like tubeless, getting through 7000kms with no hassle on a set of tyres is decent especially when they have been ploughing into London every day with all the broken glass etc that entails, but the PITA that comes with changing the tyre is driving me mad.
  • zakoszakos Posts: 9
    I've been using these IRC x-guards for about 800 miles now, I discovered this after a puncture last night. I'm guessing it's no longer safe to ride, I'm looking for any recommendations for maybe another brand, or should I get another one IRC?

    IMG-20190121-202121.jpg
  • kingstoniankingstonian Posts: 1,769
    I wouldn't ride it any further, looks like it is ready to go bang at any time. Shouldn't really happen after such low mileage, as it appears to have just worn through the rubber down to the carcass.
  • zefszefs Posts: 484
    Probably used the break too hard?
  • Hit some debris or glass probably. Just bad luck rather than the tyre not being any good
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,861
    the rubber on that tyre is abraded. It like you have been locking the wheel at high speed alot. Something not right there.

    Occasionally (I have had it with a good year tyre) the rubber seperates from the carcass and then falls apart. that may have happened here. really hard to tell now as the tyre has been destroyed.

    This flow chart may help those with tubeless instalation questions. There is a guide appearing in cycling weekly which i have contributed too. I have not seen how its been written up so I hope the details are accurate.

    tubless-flow-chart.jpg
    2014 volkswagen jetta 0 60
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
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