Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

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  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    Anyone running 28c Schwalbe Pro Ones?

    Looking for some fast 28-30mm tyres to go on the CX bike (for my road wheels).
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    As a winter tyre? The pro one is not a winter tyre.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    As a winter tyre? The pro one is not a winter tyre.

    Why is this?

    I’ve used GP4Ks all year round without any issues (and they’re obviously not tubeless).

    Wet grip is essential. Michelin Power Comps have nearly killed me a few times in the rain.
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    Ryan_W wrote:
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    As a winter tyre? The pro one is not a winter tyre.

    Why is this?

    I’ve used GP4Ks all year round without any issues (and they’re obviously not tubeless).

    Wet grip is essential. Michelin Power Comps have nearly killed me a few times in the rain.

    I've seen a few places and other posters mention that the wet grip if the Pro One isn't all that but they are fantastic dry weather tyres.

    In terms of 28mm tubeless tyres most of the other 28mm options are more robust and less fast rolling. I'm using Hutchinson Sector 28's which I really like and do have lots of wet grip but they aren't really a fast racing tyre.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    GP4Ks are very durable: I used to get up to 5k miles from them, but Pro Ones are not in the same league regards durability and they get cut up relatively easily so would suffer in winter.

    Maxxis Padrone are lovely tires and you can get 28s for about £40. I am not sure about winter durability, but mine haven't cut up at all over the summer.

    Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season Tubeless Ready are relatively light, durable, grippy and are specifically designed for winter use . I didn't have any trouble with them last winter. The 25s I have on DT460 rims come up about 27mm, but 28mm are also available.
  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    I'm currently running 38c Panaracer Gravel Kings, the slick variant. They have been great all year, however, cut up pretty bad. I'd be tempted to go for the 32c version, but want something a little narrower.

    Will take a look at the Hutchinsons, can't be bad since they make most tyres on the market!
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    Ryan_W wrote:
    Will take a look at the Hutchinsons, can't be bad since they make most tyres on the market!
    Watch out for the Tubeless v Tubeless Ready versions as the former are much heavier. Also 11storm is the latest variation of the compound.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Pro one cut up to easily more many in the wet. Conti tyres offer more wet grip and puncture less. If you don't believe me you will on a wet cold January evening unless your idea of winter rides is only when it sunny and dry.

    For winter tubeless tyres I have some good year eagles to try out and a long term test on the maxis padrone The Mavic yskion UST is coming to the end of its life. The rear tyre is not holding air reliability any more. The front tyre is much better. I am pulling both off. The front is free to anyone who wants it.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    bobones wrote:
    Ryan_W wrote:
    Will take a look at the Hutchinsons, can't be bad since they make most tyres on the market!
    Watch out for the Tubeless v Tubeless Ready versions as the former are much heavier. Also 11storm is the latest variation of the compound.

    I went for the Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm in a 28c.

    It’s ‘tubless ready’ but the 25c comes in at 255g, so not heavy at all.
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    Ryan_W wrote:
    bobones wrote:
    Ryan_W wrote:
    Will take a look at the Hutchinsons, can't be bad since they make most tyres on the market!
    Watch out for the Tubeless v Tubeless Ready versions as the former are much heavier. Also 11storm is the latest variation of the compound.

    I went for the Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm in a 28c.

    It’s ‘tubless ready’ but the 25c comes in at 255g, so not heavy at all.

    I run those 28 Fusion 5s on the winter/commuter - they're fine. I've got the Schwalbe Pro Ones on one set of summer wheels and IRC Formula Pros on another. The Schwalbes are the fastest, but I'll take the IRCs in the wet or on a descent any day.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    Ryan_W wrote:
    I went for the Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm in a 28c.

    It’s ‘tubless ready’ but the 25c comes in at 255g, so not heavy at all.
    Yes, the Tubeless Ready are relatively light, and I've been using the Performance edition on my summer bike, but it was the All Seasons I was advocating for winter use.
  • ryan_w-2
    ryan_w-2 Posts: 1,162
    Anything tubeless should be fine. Have been running tubeless for past couple of years on road bikes and god knows how long on MTBs...

    I wanted something pretty fast rolling and the All Season Hutch tyre looks like a beast so would suffer with RR.

    A tube is always in my saddle bag, so if it does go tits up, I'll just bang one in.
    Specialized Allez Sprint Disc --- Specialized S-Works SL7

    IG: RhinosWorkshop
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    You could just stick a tacky worn in. They need to be sticky though I think many if the problem found is that some plugs are less tacky than others.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I think I have found why my rear yskion tyre has been loosing air. I injected more sealant and it appears at the bead. There are lots of dents in the rim. More than I thought. I may need more than a new tyre.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    You could just stick a tacky worn in. They need to be sticky though I think many if the problem found is that some plugs are less tacky than others.
    I've given up on worms. I've tried the thin bacon strip type ones from the likes of Genuine Innovations and thicker, tackier, black Weldtite ones. Nothing I've tried has stayed in a tyre pumped up to 80-90 psi and I've had to resort to fitting tubes on a couple of occasions. I'm definitely not the only one having trouble with worms so I don't think it's my technique.

    I've now purchased some Dynaplugs, and they look to be the solution to plugs ejecting themselves under pressure.

    It's actually quite hard to find European stocks at a decent price but I got this kit, which seems sufficient and not too expensive.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    that because the thin worms both those companies sell are 1.5mm thick and not think enough for all but the smallest punctures. with the small plugs you have to use many to fill a bigger hole. note how I say 3.5mm plugs are also needed. You should see the tyre I did at the cycle show. It was full on worms big and small. I sliced the tyre up with siscors and one slit was big enough to shove my finger through it and not my little one. 3 big worms went in and it holds 40 psi with sealant. enough to get you home. There are about 40 worms in the tyres all over it may be more.

    You gave up trying buy trying the wrong products. Thats why I have had to bring something else in. I am not sure the weldite plugs are tacky enough anyway. Dyna plugs are a good solution but too pricey and supply is a problem. I looked into them the price put me off.

    Tyre plugs work if you use them right. most people dont though. I can see that when demostrating how to use them.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    No, the problem was not that the worms were too small: they actually filled the hole and stopped the leak perfectly well, but if I inflated the tyre to my normal pressure (80 psi), the worm would slowly ease its way out of the tyre after a few hundred metres or blow out if I just left the repaired tyre sitting in my garage.

    I've tried thick and thin worms, with and without superglue or butyl solution. I've carefully watched your videos and copied your technique, I've used long lengths of worm to make it more difficult for them to escape, but out they come. They do not work for me, and others are the same. Simple as that.

    You say they're a permanent repair, but I have not found that to be the case at all and I've always had to patch from the inside if I've had a hole that sealant couldn't fix. They might just work at low pressures (e.g. 40 psi) to get you home, but I cannot rely on worms alone. I still carry a spare tube, and I have had to use it when worms have let me down.

    Saying that, I've hardly had any problems this year running tubeless as any punctures I've had have sealed or I have only noticed the loss of pressure when my bike is back in the garage, but I am not going to put my faith in worms for the coming winter, hence the Dynaplugs.

    £22 for 4 dynaplugs and the insertion tool is expensive but not overly so. If they work and prove their worth to me, I might eventually have enough faith to stop carrying a spare tube, but that is most certainly not the case now with worms, no matter what you say!
  • zefs
    zefs Posts: 484
    I don't see how they come off if you use the glue that comes with the kit? it's called rubber solution I think. Did you use some around the plug where it meets the tire and then trim it? The same glue is used for the inner patches although that is a different shape.

    I used a parktool patch and because of the liquid sealant it was removed but it was the glueless one so these don't work. The ones that come with glue like weldtide should work better if you patch them correctly.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    edited October 2018
    Well I must be doing magic tricks then. If the plugs cant hold 80 psi then the hole is too big for the plugs. Simple as that. Use a lower pressure, fit more plugs into the hole or replace the tyre. Big holes are difficult to fix permanently. Big holes mean a compromised tyre. It surprises me how many people are willing ride a compromised tyre thinking it can be fixed.

    There is a big Maxalami plug in the thread of my rear yskion tyre that holds 80psi without glue. There has been a small plug in the side wall of the same tyre for 3000km. So obviously I am doing some thing your not or performing magic tricks. It must be magic because if BoBones can't make it work the whole concept must be faulty. As I have not tried fixing your tyres I cannot say for certain but the one thing I do know tyre plugs can work well but there are some punctures were they are a temporary repair. There is a difference between plugs can be permeant repair and they are a permeant repair. Some times you just have to change your tyre.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    As I said, I'm not the only person having trouble with worms ejecting themselves: users on other forums have exactly the same problems as me. The holes I am filling are tiny, and they should be easy, but they're not, so my point is that your advice to not bother carrying tubes and use worms is not quite foolproof as you make out. I am really sold on tubeless so I won't be going back to tubes, but I need a better method for holes that do not seal, and I am hoping the Dynaplugs will provide that solution.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    then explain why it works for me and many then. maybe it worms not all being equal. There is something that you and others are missing I am sure. I personally dont use the welsdite kits plugs. maybe I am pushing them in deeper. drop by I will show you how.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    I don't know the answer to that. Perhaps it is the worms themselves. For the small holes I was using the brown Genuine Innovations ones, moving on to the thicker black Weldtite/Decathlon ones.

    The last time I tried, I was in the comfort of my garage, and I made sure I pushed the full length of the (doubled over) worm into the tyre and twisted it while removing the insertion tool. It looked secure at first, but under inflation, I could see the portion of the worm outside the tyre gradually getting bigger, and bigger until it popped out with a bang.

    I retried several times with different thickness of worm and with glue/solution, but nothing stayed securely affixed when the tyre was at full pressure.

    After that I gave up, took the tyre off and fitted a tubeless specific patch to the inside, which has held up perfectly well.

    Early last winter, I had quite a few punctures on the road that didn't seal, and my efforts with worms then were also unsuccessful such that fitting a tube was the only way to get home.

    I appreciate that you and others have had success with worms, but I've failed to get them to work too many times now, hence the move to Dynaplugs.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I dont use those plugs any more because they dont always work. It a bit like say tubeless tyres are rubbish because my pro ones puncture alot. the statement often made assumes that all tubeless tyres are like the pro one and that is the pinnicle of tubeless tyre technology. Hutchinson do a better job than schwalbe with there new compounds and casing. The same applies to tyre plugs. As I have said your missing a trick however you have found a different solution.

    What you have found is the GI and weldite plugs are always a long term fix.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    bobones wrote:
    As I said, I'm not the only person having trouble with worms ejecting themselves: users on other forums have exactly the same problems as me. The holes I am filling are tiny, and they should be easy, but they're not, so my point is that your advice to not bother carrying tubes and use worms is not quite foolproof as you make out. I am really sold on tubeless so I won't be going back to tubes, but I need a better method for holes that do not seal, and I am hoping the Dynaplugs will provide that solution.

    Have a look on YouTube for a guy called Malcolm Borg. He has a video where he adds superglue to the tire/worm after he's put the worm in and apparently it seals up to about 90psi. Might be worth a try. I think he uses a standard bottle of loctite.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Er, Malcolm Borg is the poster immediately above you, posts as 'thecycleclinic'.... that's his shop.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    That video needs to be deleted. It's old and out of date. I have since learnt that not all plugs are equal. The size of the worms sold in the weldite and GI kits is the main issue. There stickyness might be another. I can't login to delete it though. Glue can help sometimes but I rarely carry it now because I not found the need since I switched which plugs I carry. That's why I want to delete it.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • w00dster
    w00dster Posts: 880
    What is the current Tubeless tyre of choice? Mixing threads a bit here, but I'm currently running 25mm Schwalbe Pro One tubeless. Bike is a Canyon Aeroad, Reynolds Strike 62mm wheels - so an aero wheel, 17mm internal rim.
    They are an absolute @ss to swap tubes, so went with the Schwalbe Pro One's, not for any other reason that the low rolling resistance. Won't be used very much over winter, I'll be using my winter bike which is clincher only.
    Tyre I'd like would be 23mm, light (not worried about longevity) and fast rolling.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    w00dster wrote:
    What is the current Tubeless tyre of choice? Mixing threads a bit here, but I'm currently running 25mm Schwalbe Pro One tubeless. Bike is a Canyon Aeroad, Reynolds Strike 62mm wheels - so an aero wheel, 17mm internal rim.
    They are an absolute @ss to swap tubes, so went with the Schwalbe Pro One's, not for any other reason that the low rolling resistance. Won't be used very much over winter, I'll be using my winter bike which is clincher only.
    Tyre I'd like would be 23mm, light (not worried about longevity) and fast rolling.

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  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    That video needs to be deleted. It's old and out of date. I have since learnt that not all plugs are equal. The size of the worms sold in the weldite and GI kits is the main issue. There stickyness might be another. I can't login to delete it though. Glue can help sometimes but I rarely carry it now because I not found the need since I switched which plugs I carry. That's why I want to delete it.

    Ok, but what is the size issue with the weldtite and GI kits? Too small/big? Which plugs do you recommend now and also which sealant?

    I'm really trying to like tubeless, but what a faff (I know you'll say it isn't, but lots reading this might feel the same as me).
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The weldite and GI plugs are 1.5mm thick which is fine for 1 or 2mm pin holes. The kit I carry has this size worn but also 3.5mm thick plugs. The plugs are also more sticky do they hold better in the tyre. as a result I don't carry the glue any more although it can be useful fixing small side wall punctures still.

    Merlin sell them and the refill packs. Maxalami also has a sealant.

    https://www.merlincycles.com/maxalami-r ... 10339.html
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

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