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Maybe we are not doomed after all

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  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Ivanpah_aerial_shot.jpg

    Solar forms of production in the sunniest parts of the world distributed via super conductor cable would be great. Hydroelectric for excess storage. We had a great year for solar this year.
  • Not very well positioned solar panels. Could fit 3-4x more by putting them next to each other. I imagine there is good reason for this.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,475
    Not very well positioned solar panels. Could fit 3-4x more by putting them next to each other. I imagine there is good reason for this.
    I think they are reflectors pointing at the central collector, rather than PVs.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rjsterry wrote:
    Not very well positioned solar panels. Could fit 3-4x more by putting them next to each other. I imagine there is good reason for this.
    I think they are reflectors pointing at the central collector, rather than PVs.

    My point still stands if that's the case. I'm probably wrong but it still looks inefficient.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,475
    rjsterry wrote:
    Not very well positioned solar panels. Could fit 3-4x more by putting them next to each other. I imagine there is good reason for this.
    I think they are reflectors pointing at the central collector, rather than PVs.

    My point still stands if that's the case. I'm probably wrong but it still looks inefficient.

    No, reflectors are all positioned at different orientations and angles to focus sunlight to a single point, whereas PVs just need to face in one direction at one optimum angle.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • That I understand. Still seems like lots of unused space
  • I'm guessing that those reflectors are directing the sun's energy towards the top of those towers. At the angle from the top of the tower probably results in a lot less gap between reflectors. If you look at the reflectors furthest away they look whiter than the other sides indicating less gaps. That's without the camera being at the same angle the top of the tower is at.

    It's a good system if you have the sun. I believe Spain has a few of these on operation.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,702
    FocusZing's photo is of Ivanpah Solar Power Facility. It was built before the price of solar PV fell dramatically, and I doubt they would build it again, especially without any form of storage.

    There is a similar concept that involves molten salt. This at least provides some storage so may offer an advantage in some circumstances over PV

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah ... r_Facility
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,702
    In terms of panel spacing for PV, there is an optimal fixed angle which will receive the most energy. This depends on location, but is about 30 degrees in the UK. The greater the angle the greater the amount of shadowing from one panel on another. Shadowing reduces production. Therefore there is a trade off between optimal angle and space used. This is all factored into the designs at the beginning.

    There are also moving panels that track the sun. These are more popular in sunnier places like Australia. That number of moving parts seems risky to me.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    That I understand. Still seems like lots of unused space

    That's probably the point - it's space that is being wasted (hopefully) rather than the capacity of the system so strictly it doesn't matter much. We are good at wasting space when there is plenty of it; just look at how much space US property takes up.....
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Rolf F wrote:
    That I understand. Still seems like lots of unused space

    That's probably the point - it's space that is being wasted (hopefully) rather than the capacity of the system so strictly it doesn't matter much. We are good at wasting space when there is plenty of it; just look at how much space US property takes up.....

    What do you mean? Are you saying gardens and spacious living arrangements are a waste?
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    The americans do have huge places compared to Europe. When you speak to them they always ask how many square metres your house is. Bigger is better eh ?
  • I would rather a larger house than a smaller one (up to a point). Wouldn't you?
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Location location location.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    The problem with large houses is you get a place like LA with it's endless sprawl of suburbs, and highways absolutely overwhelmed with traffic as they all live so far from work (or anything else) that they have to drive everywhere.

    The sheer size of the plots and houses pushes everyone further away from where they have to get to.

    It's part of why city living and bikes have had a bit of a return to fashion among the hipsters and young.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,341
    TimothyW wrote:
    The problem with large houses is you get a place like LA with it's endless sprawl of suburbs, and highways absolutely overwhelmed with traffic as they all live so far from work (or anything else) that they have to drive everywhere.

    The sheer size of the plots and houses pushes everyone further away from where they have to get to.

    It's part of why city living and bikes have had a bit of a return to fashion among the hipsters and young.
    None of this will ever apply to London.
    No, none whatsoever.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 42,463
    PBlakeney wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:
    The problem with large houses is you get a place like LA with it's endless sprawl of suburbs, and highways absolutely overwhelmed with traffic as they all live so far from work (or anything else) that they have to drive everywhere.

    The sheer size of the plots and houses pushes everyone further away from where they have to get to.

    It's part of why city living and bikes have had a bit of a return to fashion among the hipsters and young.
    None of this will ever apply to London.
    No, none whatsoever.

    Unless the (remaining) old warehouses, brownfield sites (and that monstrosity, the Battersea power station) are turned into affordable living spaces.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • Battersea is kind of iconic though
  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,373
    The Dinorwig hydroelectric Power Station, Snowdonia national park in Gwynedd, northern Wales. if anybody has a bit of free time to watch.

    Installed capacity‎: ‎1,650 MW (2,210,000 hp)
    Turbines‎: ‎6 × 300 MW (400,000 hp)
    Built in 1974
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Ooh. I went there with school.
  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,373
    cougie wrote:
    Ooh. I went there with school.

    Great idea forty odd years ago, it does seem crazy why the desire wasn't there for the severn barrage.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,702
    FocusZing wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Ooh. I went there with school.

    Great idea forty odd years ago, it does seem crazy why the desire wasn't there for the severn barrage.

    Different purposes. Plus serven barrage is very expensive for its market.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,475
    TheBigBean wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Ooh. I went there with school.

    Great idea forty odd years ago, it does seem crazy why the desire wasn't there for the severn barrage.

    Different purposes. Plus serven barrage is very expensive for its market.

    It says a lot about the difficulties of constructing a Severn Barrage that excavating 4million cubic metres of rock 750m inside a mountain was easier.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,702
    rjsterry wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Ooh. I went there with school.

    Great idea forty odd years ago, it does seem crazy why the desire wasn't there for the severn barrage.

    Different purposes. Plus serven barrage is very expensive for its market.

    It says a lot about the difficulties of constructing a Severn Barrage that excavating 4million cubic metres of rock 750m inside a mountain was easier.

    I don't know anything about civils, but isn't one just fancy mining whilst the other attempts to dam the sea?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,475
    TheBigBean wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Ooh. I went there with school.

    Great idea forty odd years ago, it does seem crazy why the desire wasn't there for the severn barrage.

    Different purposes. Plus serven barrage is very expensive for its market.

    It says a lot about the difficulties of constructing a Severn Barrage that excavating 4million cubic metres of rock 750m inside a mountain was easier.

    I don't know anything about civils, but isn't one just fancy mining whilst the other attempts to dam the sea?
    Well, when you put it like that... :lol:
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Hoover Dam.

    The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, an original operator of the dam when it was erected in the 1930s, wants to equip it with a $3 billion pipeline and a pump station powered by solar and wind energy. The pump station, downstream, would help regulate the water flow through the dam’s generators, sending water back to the top to help manage electricity at times of peak demand.
    The net result would be a kind of energy storage — performing much the same function as the giant lithium-ion batteries being developed to absorb and release power.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... nergy.html

    A worthy government project.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    FocusZing wrote:
    Hoover Dam.

    The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, an original operator of the dam when it was erected in the 1930s, wants to equip it with a $3 billion pipeline and a pump station powered by solar and wind energy. The pump station, downstream, would help regulate the water flow through the dam’s generators, sending water back to the top to help manage electricity at times of peak demand.
    The net result would be a kind of energy storage — performing much the same function as the giant lithium-ion batteries being developed to absorb and release power.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... nergy.html

    A worthy government project.

    $3bn? Shhh.. don't tell the Orange Shitgibbon.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    I would rather a larger house than a smaller one (up to a point). Wouldn't you?

    Missed this before! If our properties were the size of American ones then Leeds, Manchester, Wakefield, York, Halifax, Sheffield etc would have built over much of the Pennines. How much space do you need? I'd rather live in a small house and be able to visit the nearby countryside than live in a large house with no countryside.

    America has space to waste and, like everything it has to waste, it wastes it. We don't.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,702
    Rolf F wrote:
    I would rather a larger house than a smaller one (up to a point). Wouldn't you?

    Missed this before! If our properties were the size of American ones then Leeds, Manchester, Wakefield, York, Halifax, Sheffield etc would have built over much of the Pennines. How much space do you need? I'd rather live in a small house and be able to visit the nearby countryside than live in a large house with no countryside.

    America has space to waste and, like everything it has to waste, it wastes it. We don't.

    They could also be the size of those in Hong Kong.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,341
    They could also be sized and priced like Manhattan instead of Montana but nevemind...
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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