Need advice on training plans etc.

tonysj · July 2018

Hi All,

I'm at a point where I'm not really sure what I need to do next with regards to training and riding.
Bit of background first.
I'm 55 yrs old 5-10, weight 12 stone 4 lb or 78 kg. Been road cycling for about 18 months but retired last December so averaging 350 miles a month. I've done the FTP test a number of times as I have a turbo trainer and my last FTP last week was 294 watts minus the 5% so 279 watts as it was a 20 minute effort.
I don't race and have no desire to do so and just like to push myself when I go out on my own and when with a group of friends I go at their pace so its more of a zone 2/3 ride which suits me fine.

My, on my own, rides tend to be average speed of 17-18 mph for an hour ride with 1500 ft elevation,
I rode the Ross Tiger sportive on the 8th July on my own and after a slight detour completed the 112 miles in 6 hours 28 minutes average moving time of 17.4 mph. Obviously 2 feed station breaks to recover a little.

I need to know what I should be looking at for my rides which are generally 3 rides a week.

I would appreciate any advice on training plans as I don't have much of a clue really.I appreciate I'm not aiming for an event or race etc so some may think I should just ride and enjoy it.

Any sites BC or other that I can research and get an idea of a training plan I can follow as although I'm really enjoying the rides I feel there should be something else so I can focus more on that rather than just belt it round and check Strava and Garmin connect when I get home afterwards.

Thanks for any advice guys..

Regards.

Tony.

StillGoing · July 2018

Without knowing what your weaknesses and strengths are, how can you plan to train to either of them? Sufferfest have their 4DP Full Frontal workout, and Training Peaks their WK04 both of which give you a rider profile type and suggested training plans. I'm sure there are others. For instance, Sufferfest identified that my 1 minute power is very weak compared to 5 sec, 5 min and 20 min powers, so I know I need to target that area, whilst not neglecting the strengths. Alternatively, unless you're gifted in the art of data collection to fathom it out yourself on something like Golden Cheetah, a coach would be able to tell you. Or Alex might have suggestions of suitable programs if you PM him.

Alex_Simmons/RST · July 2018

What are your goals?

It's important to understand why you want to "train" as opposed to simply ride or to exercise. What's driving you?

tonysj · July 2018

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

What are your goals?

Hi Alex,

Difficult to say as I don't race or plan to I just want to be able to ride fast for longer and be able to climb better/faster.
The only long rides are arranged Sportive rides with feed stations so I'm generally OK with my last 112 miler and only started to feel fatigued during the last 20 miles, mainly due to the heat that day. I'm not in a club either so pacing with a faster group ride is unlikely, although I've mulled over joining a local club as I'm retired and find social rides with friends midweek difficult to arrange, juggling home children issues for others.
Should I join a local club and would it help me regarding the above?
I think I just want to continue improving but using some sort of plan for rides. I tend to ride on my own due to the above but have no obvious plan for say my 3 rides a week just going out and going around 95 to 120% of FTP. The rides are always like this as I don't seem to have a "Steady pace" option.

I suppose my goals are.
Ride faster over a 1 to 2 hour ride.
Climb better or be able to pace better on hills.

I've No desire to race, ride Mega distances so if there's any advice you can give or point me in the right direction of on-line plans I could look at that would be great.

On a slightly off topic, Heart Rate. I ride with a HR monitor, Garmin 1000, and know use a Power meter, over last 4 weeks.
My Max HR was 182 BPM when I rode up a steep hill in my first few months of riding on roads, it was January as well so not nice weather. The Max HR I've hit in the last 16 months was 174 BPM on the Tour de Yorkshire Sportive ride up Black Hill, Arthington Cat 4 last climb of the day. I never get near this Max HR when I ride or even during a Turbo Trainer FTP test generally only hitting 165 BPM. Is this normal or does it show anything about my fitness/effort? I appreciate my fitness has improved so effort via HR would be lower for the same effort put in.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Regards.

Tony.

N0bodyOfTheGoat · July 2018

Similar stats to me, except I'm ~11 years younger and a little lower 95% FTP. I have no proper structure as such, but I tend to...

Generally, I try to hit an average of 300W+ up cat3/4 hills and then recover between them, either at a higher cadence with less power (typically under 200W) or even freewheel down descents.

Sometimes, I will try and hold 200W+ power between the hill climbs.

Other times, I will try to hold 275W+ on the flats and descents while not focusing on cat4 hill climbs at all (even not visiting them at all).

Roughly once/twice a month, I will try to do an all out effort, regardless of gradient, for ~20mins.

Every now and again, I will try to do roughly "an hour of power" with no recovery time, which has yet to give me results close to the 20min 95% FTP figure ( approx. 250W vs 271W).

More power intensive rides are shorter, ~1.5-2.5 hours total, while a recovery ride might be 3-5 hours.

But especially in this hot weather, I rarely do two power training rides on consecutive days, if I go out between them it's a gentle recovery ride. It's fair to say my power training frequency has dropped in this heatwave to closer to once a week, as I'm rarely getting out before ~0730 to avoid the heat and later in the day I go through water very quickly. Usually two power rides per week, three if I'm very lucky/sadistic.

:twisted:

tonysj · July 2018

NitrousOxide wrote:

Similar stats to me, except I'm ~11 years younger and a little lower 95% FTP. I have no proper structure as such, but I tend to...

Generally, I try to hit an average of 300W+ up cat3/4 hills and then recover between them, either at a higher cadence with less power (typically under 200W) or even freewheel down descents.

Sometimes, I will try and hold 200W+ power between the hill climbs.

Other times, I will try to hold 275W+ on the flats and descents while not focusing on cat4 hill climbs at all (even not visiting them at all).

Roughly once/twice a month, I will try to do an all out effort, regardless of gradient, for ~20mins.

Every now and again, I will try to do roughly "an hour of power" with no recovery time, which has yet to give me results close to the 20min 95% FTP figure ( approx. 250W vs 271W).

More power intensive rides are shorter, ~1.5-2.5 hours total, while a recovery ride might be 3-5 hours.

But especially in this hot weather, I rarely do two power training rides on consecutive days, if I go out between them it's a gentle recovery ride. It's fair to say my power training frequency has dropped in this heatwave to closer to once a week, as I'm rarely getting out before ~0730 to avoid the heat and later in the day I go through water very quickly. Usually two power rides per week, three if I'm very lucky/sadistic. :twisted:

Thanks for that Nitrous. Will have a look at your structure for rides and see if I enjoy it. :evil:

StillGoing · July 2018

Having done the Sufferfest Full Frontal 4DP test, I'm not convinced by it. I'm shown as a sprinter, but have a distinct drop between my 5s and 1m power, before sharply rising through 5m to 20m power. That to my mind is not a sprinter when I'd expect a drop to 5m from 1m and 1m to be one of my biggest strengths?

Typical Analytical · July 2018

Pickup Fast After Fifty by Joe Friel.

More importantly, however, keep enjoying yourself.

Sounds to me like you are doing great right now so definitely keep that up and if, at any point, chasing numbers and/or the controversies of training philosophies get you down then turn it all off and go back to what you were doing.

Definitely stay away from software and generic plans, though, as they are simply silly.

Logging your rides, paying a bit of attention to improvement, and making/testing adjustments here and there can be fun.

stevie63 · July 2018

philthy3 wrote:

Having done the Sufferfest Full Frontal 4DP test, I'm not convinced by it. I'm shown as a sprinter, but have a distinct drop between my 5s and 1m power, before sharply rising through 5m to 20m power. That to my mind is not a sprinter when I'd expect a drop to 5m from 1m and 1m to be one of my biggest strengths?

What is your ratio between your 5 second power and your 20 minute power?

StillGoing · July 2018

stevie63 wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Having done the Sufferfest Full Frontal 4DP test, I'm not convinced by it. I'm shown as a sprinter, but have a distinct drop between my 5s and 1m power, before sharply rising through 5m to 20m power. That to my mind is not a sprinter when I'd expect a drop to 5m from 1m and 1m to be one of my biggest strengths?

What is your ratio between your 5 second power and your 20 minute power?

Had contact with Sufferfest who agree that my profile is an anomaly, but down to me. As I'm coming back from some health issues, the difference in my 5s and 20m power is big enough to fool the program into labelling me a sprinter. My FTP before my health issues was way higher. My 5s is just above average which fits as I couldn't out sprint me let alone anyone else. My pre-health issue FTP was just over 3.7w/kg. Now I understand the process for the 4DP, I can see why it had me down as a sprinter.

Need advice on training plans etc.

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