Grinding noise in high gears 8 - 11

cblake843
cblake843 Posts: 27
edited April 2018 in Workshop
Many thanks for letting me join the forum. I have an issue with my 11 speed cyclocross cannondale CAADX 105 which is basically in higer gears ( small rear cog in case my terminology is off) i get an awful grinding sound.

It starts in gear 8 all the way to 11 , intensfying as I go. The same thing happens when in the big or small cog on front. I have exhausted all info on the internet hence the need to ask some experts.

Things I have tried to date :-

1)B-Screw adjustment , Fine no rubbing on the rear derailleur
2) H and L screw adjustment , perfectly fine.
3) Rear derailleur cable tension fine, gear shifting is fine with no hesitation.
4) Front derailleur not rubbing, I am very used to this having 105 and the trim function which makes a distintctive sound.
5) Took the cassette off , reseated it and ensured fully tightened.
6) Checked for stiff links.

The spec appears compatible :-

Shimano chain HG-X11 HG701-11
Shimano cassette CS6800 Ultegra 11fach 11-28

I ride all year round and in winter I fit studded tyres as I once had a painful ice accident, which I don't want to repeat. With these tyres I never go to the higher gears so I have no idea when this could have started. With the slicks back on I need these higher gears.

So as mentioned I'm now stumped and am out of ideas....

Could it be a worn chain or cassette ?

I'm reluctant to visit my LBS as it's not so local and they ripped me off the last time I used them. I 've managed all my own repairs except for this issue.

Comments

  • Jimny14
    Jimny14 Posts: 54
    Just a thought, over winter you've not been using your smaller cogs, I take it you've given everything a good clean and oil recently, could they have become crudded up over winter?
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,842
    Could be those smaller tooth gears are still in relatively new condition through relative lack of use, while the chain and larger tooth gears have worn to accommodate each other. My Cube is only ~11 months old, but the 11/12/13T sprockets are still shiny metal, while the others are tarnished from frequent use, because I focus much more on hill climbing speed.

    New chain and cassette could be the ticket.
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  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    Could it be due to the trim settings on the front derailleur? The chain could be rubbing on that part if the position is wrong for those cogs at the back.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    Jimny14 wrote:
    Just a thought, over winter you've not been using your smaller cogs, I take it you've given everything a good clean and oil recently, could they have become crudded up over winter?

    Yes thanks , given it a full clean and re-oiled with no difference.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    wongataa wrote:
    Could it be due to the trim settings on the front derailleur? The chain could be rubbing on that part if the position is wrong for those cogs at the back.

    I re-tuned the front derailleur as part of this investigation and there is no rub. I've also manually pulled the front derailleur fully right when on the stand and the grinding noise persists in the aforementioned gear combination.

    I also hear the noise when the front derailleur is on the smallest sprocket , so I'm ruling out the front as an issue.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    NitrousOxide wrote:
    Could be those smaller tooth gears are still in relatively new condition through relative lack of use, while the chain and larger tooth gears have worn to accommodate each other. My Cube is only ~11 months old, but the 11/12/13T sprockets are still shiny metal, while the others are tarnished from frequent use, because I focus much more on hill climbing speed.

    New chain and cassette could be the ticket.


    Would it be worth running in the grinding gears for a while to see if they wear down and settle down.

    How long how many Km's would this take ? I've no experience of this
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,617
    Bit of a long shot, but take a look at how the cable is bolted to the rear mech - depending on which side of the bolt, the effective pull ratio can change. This would tend to cock up your indexing at one end or the other of the range.
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Is the chain threaded through the mech on the correct side of the little tab separating the cage?
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  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    cooldad wrote:
    Is the chain threaded through the mech on the correct side of the little tab separating the cage?

    That would cause ‘grinding’ in all gears though wouldn’t it?

    Could the op video turning the cranks in a workstand and show front, rear and chain run? That could help remote diagnosis.

    PP
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    cooldad wrote:
    Is the chain threaded through the mech on the correct side of the little tab separating the cage?

    That would cause ‘grinding’ in all gears though wouldn’t it?

    Could the op video turning the cranks in a workstand and show front, rear and chain run? That could help remote diagnosis.

    PP

    I'll make one tonight. The grinding is more severe when actually pedalling on the stand it's evident but not so pronounced. I have some images but not sure how to upload them to this forum?
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    You'll need to upload them to an external hosting website then insert a link here - I use Flickr, don't use photobucket.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Directional chain fitted the wrong way?
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    Directional chain fitted the wrong way?


    Looks like i've got my chain on the wrong way round :-( Ordered a new one , hopefully this will resolve it.

    Thanks for the tip
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    cblake843 wrote:
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    Directional chain fitted the wrong way?


    Looks like i've got my chain on the wrong way round :-( Ordered a new one , hopefully this will resolve it.

    Thanks for the tip

    Chain on the right way , same problem then put the new chain on and same problem. Not sure what to do next , new cassette or LBS ?
  • jermas
    jermas Posts: 484
    Is the lower jockey wheel too wobbly on its bushing? Sometimes when very worn, the chain can rub on the rear derailleur cage when the chain-line isn't straight. You'll be able to see wear marks on the cage if so.
  • sh3p
    sh3p Posts: 98
    Is the hanger bent out of alignment and the indexing getting worse the further up the cassette uou go ?
  • sickbuoy
    sickbuoy Posts: 19
    A new cassette or possibly the bearings on free hub body on way out so when cassette is under pressure the outer body bearing is grinding.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    jermas wrote:
    Is the lower jockey wheel too wobbly on its bushing? Sometimes when very worn, the chain can rub on the rear derailleur cage when the chain-line isn't straight. You'll be able to see wear marks on the cage if so.

    Jockey wheels both seem fine no wear or tear, when on the stand anyway.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    sh3p wrote:
    Is the hanger bent out of alignment and the indexing getting worse the further up the cassette uou go ?


    Hanger alignment appears fine, gears would be slipping otherwise in my experience. The gear shifting is perfect , no hesitation or slipping, in fact it's never been better.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    And you can't hear where the rubbing is coming from ? Turn the bik upside down and pedal ? You should be able to see if its from the front or the back at least ?
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    sickbuoy wrote:
    A new cassette or possibly the bearings on free hub body on way out so when cassette is under pressure the outer body bearing is grinding.


    I'm considering a new cassette and chain , before doing so I intend to take off the crankset and lub it up. Bit of a longshot but worth checking when I can work out how to get off the FSA crank.

    One other way of describing the issue is , along with the grinding noise, there appears to be a vibration in the rear when pedalling again worsening when I go past 8 th gear on the smaller sprockets on the rear cassette.

    I'm going to stick on another wheel on the weekend , this should determine if the free hub has an issue.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Pretty sure just turning a bike upside down is easier than what you propose ?
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    Fenix wrote:
    And you can't hear where the rubbing is coming from ? Turn the bik upside down and pedal ? You should be able to see if its from the front or the back at least ?


    It's really not clear , definitely not rubbing on the front derailleur. I've had it upside down and on the stand but nothing conclusive , can't see any rubbing in the rear working parts and have adjusted everything adjustable to no avail :-)

    Only thing now is to replace cassette and hope that it was worn
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    So to conclude this topic and hopefully it might help others, I fitted a new cassette and chain this morning and it's running fine. Grinding/ vibrations have ceased and I'm looking forward to some summer cycling:-)
  • Jay85be
    Jay85be Posts: 8
    Not sure its exactly the same issue but ive experienced the same when installing an R8050 coming from a 6800 ultegra. I had to keep using the 6800 cassette because the new R8000 cassette was giving me an awful grind on the 3 smallest cogs.
    I suspect it could be because its 'new' but Ive also noticed it intensifies or weakens a bit based on how tight the cassette is and how tight the quick release is (or pressed in general).

    e.g. less issues when free shifting on a standard, hard grinding noises when the bike is locked in my Wahoo Kickr.
  • cblake843
    cblake843 Posts: 27
    Jay85be wrote:
    Not sure its exactly the same issue but ive experienced the same when installing an R8050 coming from a 6800 ultegra. I had to keep using the 6800 cassette because the new R8000 cassette was giving me an awful grind on the 3 smallest cogs.
    I suspect it could be because its 'new' but Ive also noticed it intensifies or weakens a bit based on how tight the cassette is and how tight the quick release is (or pressed in general).

    e.g. less issues when free shifting on a standard, hard grinding noises when the bike is locked in my Wahoo Kickr.

    It's a nightmare to diagnose exactly what it was (for me anyway). Have u put on a new chain with your new R8000 cassette ? I'm just relieved it was chain or cassette or both issue , didn't fancy messing around with wheel bearings , which was next on list!

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