Recycling a topic, the "serial" Strava cheat

burnthesheep
burnthesheep Posts: 675
edited October 2017 in Road general
I know this was on here earlier and it's quite sad, and I chalked it up to minor anomalies and outliers and caring too much about segment times.

I started looking at the top spot for several frequent routes I do and noticed by chance that a single person, on a single ride, grabbed pretty much 90% of the possible KOM's on that route on the same day. Over a 50 to 60 mile route.

Ok, must be a pro came to town and decided to go for a ride on the bike path/greenway.

Nope. I zoomed in and sure enough, guy has speed data of 25 and 30 mph going up staircases and narrow foot bridges without even a slight 5 second dip in speed to be able to cross a street or go up some stairs on foot. Almost like he took a ride's data and told it to reduce the end time and all the corresponding stuff in between.

So, it couldn't be bad gps data. It had to be intentional.

Worse, looking at the person's feed, they "ride" like 5000 to 7000 miles a year and 450000 feet of elevation per year...............all with pretty much zero HRM, power, cadence, or any data other than speed.

Sure enough, tons of rides like this on there. I can't tell if the gps data was altered on a website or how it was done.

Is it an internet troll kind of thing? Is it a personality disorder?


So here's part of his ride he did at 25-30mph without a single blip in speed:
IMG_0077.jpg

Comments

  • cld531c
    cld531c Posts: 517
    Impressive!! If you want to see some really daft ones look at the Garmin segments...eg Old Horsehoe Pass, crap road surface, 1 mile, average gradient 13%, leader averaged over 37mph!
    Think there are just some people out there who think they can dupe people!
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    You can edit gps files to make things seem quicker, you might find this interesting:

    http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/how-to-tel ... on-strava/
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    This is the only old Horseshoe segment I can see. I think the cheat has been reported and deleted.
    https://www.strava.com/segments/901876
    They do delete people who have obviously driven the route or cycled a running route.

    BTS - let's have a look at these dodgy KOMS then ?
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    If someone wants to convince themselves they are quick, who cares?
  • burnthesheep
    burnthesheep Posts: 675
    Fenix wrote:
    This is the only old Horseshoe segment I can see. I think the cheat has been reported and deleted.
    https://www.strava.com/segments/901876
    They do delete people who have obviously driven the route or cycled a running route.

    BTS - let's have a look at these dodgy KOMS then ?

    Here's just one segment from the entire route:
    https://www.strava.com/activities/454247484#10919888236

    He did it at 31mph when the guy in 2nd is a known local racer did it at 21mph. Not to mention the impossible bridges to cross at 31mph.

    Entire ride was like that too.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036
    Does it really matter?
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Any proper rider could tail whip off that beacon, scream Straaaaaaaaavvaaaaaaaaa to get the peds out of the way and bunny hop the other end.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

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  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    So flag the ride, That's the point of having the flag option.
  • ben@31
    ben@31 Posts: 2,327
    Maybe he built a ramp and jumped over it?
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    ben@31 wrote:
    Maybe he built a ramp and jumped over it?

    Some people just cannot understand that some of us just want it more, train harder etc etc.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    He's not on any of the boards. Looks like there deleted him from the standings.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    That is pretty funny, to be fair. Profile claims that he is 60+, ride is at 37km/h and of an hour and a half duration.

    The hour record in the 60-64 age category is 44km/h.

    I wouldn't let it bother you. There's a lot of sad people on the internet, who get their kicks in very peculiar ways - just flag it, move on. Don't feed the troll....
  • shimanobottombracket
    shimanobottombracket Posts: 376
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    If someone wants to convince themselves they are quick, who cares?

    People with too many Fs to give.
    It seems they give Fs for every benign occurrence these days. The only gadget I use on my bike is a speedo. My current one doesnt even measure average speed. Strava! Pffft. I'm all out of Fs.
  • burnthesheep
    burnthesheep Posts: 675
    davidof wrote:
    Does it really matter?

    It can be a petty argument. But, what's the point of looking at segment leaderboards if it's full of bad data?

    There are some of us who make attempts at a better spot on the leaderboard as a means of fun or masochism or whatever.

    Again, what's the point if it's full of junk. Hence, I used the "flag" function as intended.

    I can totally understand the "did ride in a car". People forget to turn off the Gps. The website thing though is purely and mentally pathetic.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    The only way to compete with times that you can be sure about is to just try and beat your own times
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Chris Bass wrote:
    The only way to compete with times that you can be sure about is to just try and beat your own times
    these are the only ones that matter.
  • tonysj
    tonysj Posts: 391
    I tend to ride a few regular route and the only thing I aim for is to be in the top 10% of riders over that segment. Like some have said is just to try and best your own times. No other way of showing progress and that your getting fitted.
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    TonySJ wrote:
    I tend to ride a few regular route and the only thing I aim for is to be in the top 10% of riders over that segment. Like some have said is just to try and best your own times. No other way of showing progress and that your getting fitted.

    but does it show that ? playing devils advocate a bit, but I know people would say but each ride is different, the conditions are different, you are physically different each time,so how can you really compare and measure, yeah sure I can much longer distances and spend hours in the saddle fairly comfortably nowadays, whereas maybe a decade ago Id be cream crackered just riding into work. so Ive gained bike fitness for sure, though who knows really how much.

    but did I smash all my pbs on a specific route the other week, that Ive done alot for years, because Im getting fitter, because I picked an optimum day weather wise to do it, I just happened to have set myself up nutritionally well for that ride, I was in the right frame of mind or what ?

    I dont know the answer, but does not besting your own times mean you arent getting fitter, most would say no Id think.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    If you're beating your old times, then it would at the very least suggest you haven't become less fit...

    If you're going to get obsessive about this sort of stuff, a power meter is the way to do it as it removes all these other variables.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I flag up duff ride data if I come across it.
    Around here it's usually someone who goes out and does a bit of offroading - gets back in the car and zooms home - uploads their data and does no more about it.
    Well - if the rider isn't bothered about suddenly claiming XX KOMs whilst driving then I'm quite happy to flag their ride.

    As others have said - it makes a mokery of the leaderboard and whilst the leaderboard isn't the be-all of riding - sometimes it's nice to go for a target on the board and see how you do - if the leaderboard is cluttered with false data then IMHO, it spoils it.

    <now to go and have a check to see if my usual segments have any dubious riders>
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    awavey wrote:
    TonySJ wrote:
    I tend to ride a few regular route and the only thing I aim for is to be in the top 10% of riders over that segment. Like some have said is just to try and best your own times. No other way of showing progress and that your getting fitted.

    but does it show that ? playing devils advocate a bit, but I know people would say but each ride is different, the conditions are different, you are physically different each time,so how can you really compare and measure, yeah sure I can much longer distances and spend hours in the saddle fairly comfortably nowadays, whereas maybe a decade ago Id be cream crackered just riding into work. so Ive gained bike fitness for sure, though who knows really how much.

    but did I smash all my pbs on a specific route the other week, that Ive done alot for years, because Im getting fitter, because I picked an optimum day weather wise to do it, I just happened to have set myself up nutritionally well for that ride, I was in the right frame of mind or what ?

    I dont know the answer, but does not besting your own times mean you arent getting fitter, most would say no Id think.

    that's why you need a lot of data, if you zoom in too far you can't tell, but plot a graph and see the general trend, you'll always get the odd anomaly but this should help to iron them out.

    You could argue that climate change isn't happening if you look to recent, "how can global warming be happening when it was so cold last week?" for example.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Strava Running shows a trend line for routes you repeat. It's good for comparing performance but bad as it tempts me into running the same route rather than trying something new.
    Also I've had to flag to Strava that they are putting bike rides on the Half Marathon leader board- clearly marked as bike rides so no cheating by the participant.

    Ultimately there are limits to what I expect from a free communal app. Feedback from users will help Strava more than moaning about it here, though.
  • Smarkinson
    Smarkinson Posts: 4
    I think this is a virtual ride. The rider would have ridden this on his home trainer while recording a virtual track on the virtual riding program. All it would take is for the rider to upload this virtual track to Strava (or change the ride type in Strava) and hey presto, free KOMs.

    I was able to track down this route from Bkool which looks like the exact same route (right down to the start and finish points).

    http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/104 ... lapCount=1
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Smarkinson wrote:
    I think this is a virtual ride. The rider would have ridden this on his home trainer while recording a virtual track on the virtual riding program. All it would take is for the rider to upload this virtual track to Strava (or change the ride type in Strava) and hey presto, free KOMs.

    I was able to track down this route from Bkool which looks like the exact same route (right down to the start and finish points).

    http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/104 ... lapCount=1
    good detective work there! the mystery solved :D
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • cyberknight
    cyberknight Posts: 1,238
    Chris Bass wrote:
    You can edit gps files to make things seem quicker, you might find this interesting:

    http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/how-to-tel ... on-strava/
    last time i looked the digital epo site had shutdown, hopefully strava did something about them.

    As said by others as long as your bettering your PBs its best not to worry, or if it does flag them .
    http://www.komdefender.com/
    FCN 3/5/9
  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    The only way to compete with times that you can be sure about is to just try and beat your own times
    these are the only ones that matter.

    Wise words.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • JesseD
    JesseD Posts: 1,961
    I know one rider local to me who claimed all the KOMs on a certain section of road which is known for being quite fast, he got up early one weekend when he knew he was going to have a very strong tailwind and loaded his TT bike (disc and all) into the back of his car and drove to the start of the road and basically nailed it as fast as he could, he then turned around, rode back and drove home, it did make me laugh that he had done that, after all I struggle to get up early on the weekend and certainly would not do it to bag some KOMs. The funny thing is that we changed our chain gang route last year and it now takes in this road, so 6 of us smashed it and took the top six positions on the leaderboard, I dare say he is awaiting another day with perfect conditions again to try and reclaim his top spot.

    I think the only way you can pitch yourself against others is to either race against others or take the leader-boards with a pinch of salt, as has been said before the only data you can trust is your own so just try and beat yourself each time.
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    Mate of my was very happy recently as after riding a Zwift KISS Europe race, he'd been told to move up to Cat D. Couldn't wait to tell me. He'd manged something like 2.8w/kg. Then I noticed on Zwift Power results page he'd entered his weight at 80kg, which he had kept very quiet. He actually weighs 94kg.

    I can sort of understand why he might want to his w/kg figure, just so that he can stay with the group on the climbs, have a bit of company, but to then be pleased as punch that he's been promoted from D to C leaves me a bit bewildered.

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