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Tour route 2018

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  • I think it's outrageous that the Tour haven't produced a route that prevents the strongest GT rider on the strongest team from being the favourite.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    Pross wrote:
    October: Cobbles! Yeah!
    After stage 9: *surveys list of destroyed GC ambitions * So unless Froome loses a leg it's 5 Tours. Worst route ever.
    You have strong powers of premonition I see. This will almost certainly happen

    Nah, he forgot the bit where the 'experts' go on about how cobbles have no place in a GT as they are dangerous for GC riders (see 2014).

    It's a pretty full on cobbled route.

    Much more than '14.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,770
    inseine wrote:
    From Cycling News;
    Back in 1972, the peloton peloton lined up for a 28-kilometre stage (21 kilometres of total climbing) from Aix-les-Bains to Le Revard, where Cyrille Guimard out-sprinted Eddy Merckx to take stage honours.

    Not sure what was going on on that day, but they had some proper length stages either side of it

    7 9 July Bayonne to Pau 220.5 km (137.0 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Yves Hézard (FRA)
    8 10 July Pau to Luchon 163.5 km (101.6 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Eddy Merckx (BEL)
    9 11 July Luchon to Colomiers 179.0 km (111.2 mi) Hilly stage Jos Huysmans (BEL)
    10 12 July Castres to La Grande-Motte 210.0 km (130.5 mi) Plain stage Willy Teirlinck (BEL)
    11 13 July Carnon-Plage to Mont Ventoux 207.0 km (128.6 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Bernard Thévenet (FRA)
    12 14 July Carpentras to Orcières 192.0 km (119.3 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Lucien Van Impe (BEL)
    15 July Orcières Rest day
    13 16 July Orcières to Briançon 201.0 km (124.9 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Eddy Merckx (BEL)
    14a 17 July Briançon to Valloire 51.0 km (31.7 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Eddy Merckx (BEL)
    14b Valloire to Aix-les-Bains 151.0 km (93.8 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Cyrille Guimard (FRA)
    15 18 July Aix-les-Bains to Le Revard 28.0 km (17.4 mi) Stage with mountain(s) Cyrille Guimard (FRA)
    16 19 July Aix-les-Bains to Pontarlier 198.5 km (123.3 mi) Hilly stage Willy Teirlinck (BEL)
    17 20 July Pontarlier to Ballon d’Alsace 213.0 km (132.4 mi) Hilly stage Bernard Thévenet (FRA)
    18 21 July Vesoul to Auxerre 257.5 km (160.0 mi) Plain stage Marinus Wagtmans (NED)
    19 22 July Auxerre to Versailles 230.0 km (142.9 mi) Plain stage Joseph Bruyère (BEL)
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Looking back at that 1972 Tour shows the myth of exciting Tours of old. There were only 12 teams with 11 riders each. Three of those teams won 18 of the 25 stages between them and provided 3 or the top 4 on GC and won all classifications. Merckx and Guimard were the only wearers of both the yellow and green jerseys. Only four riders finished within twenty minutes of Merckx (and three of them were Tour winners themselves - so not a low standard).

    Imagine watching that live every day.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,782
    RichN95 wrote:
    Looking back at that 1972 Tour shows the myth of exciting Tours of old. There were only 12 teams with 11 riders each. Three of those teams won 18 of the 25 stages between them and provided 3 or the top 4 on GC and won all classifications. Merckx and Guimard were the only wearers of both the yellow and green jerseys. Only four riders finished within twenty minutes of Merckx (and three of them were Tour winners themselves - so not a low standard).

    Imagine watching that live every day.

    Top post. We do tend to be a cynical lot these days.
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Looking back at that 1972 Tour shows the myth of exciting Tours of old. There were only 12 teams with 11 riders each. Three of those teams won 18 of the 25 stages between them and provided 3 or the top 4 on GC and won all classifications. Merckx and Guimard were the only wearers of both the yellow and green jerseys. Only four riders finished within twenty minutes of Merckx (and three of them were Tour winners themselves - so not a low standard).

    Imagine watching that live every day.


    2/10. Would not watch.
  • dizzydanedizzydane Posts: 322
    Lance discusses the 2018 Tour de France route - http://stages.libsyn.com/2018-tdf-route-preview
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,770
    RichN95 wrote:
    Looking back at that 1972 Tour shows the myth of exciting Tours of old. There were only 12 teams with 11 riders each. Three of those teams won 18 of the 25 stages between them and provided 3 or the top 4 on GC and won all classifications. Merckx and Guimard were the only wearers of both the yellow and green jerseys. Only four riders finished within twenty minutes of Merckx (and three of them were Tour winners themselves - so not a low standard).

    Imagine watching that live every day.

    References to exciting racing in the past are usually about the 80s. Someone winning everything is always going to be dull.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,157
    Pross wrote:
    October: Cobbles! Yeah!
    After stage 9: *surveys list of destroyed GC ambitions * So unless Froome loses a leg it's 5 Tours. Worst route ever.
    You have strong powers of premonition I see. This will almost certainly happen

    Nah, he forgot the bit where the 'experts' go on about how cobbles have no place in a GT as they are dangerous for GC riders (see 2014).

    It's a pretty full on cobbled route.

    Much more than '14.

    Yep.

    And yeah, I love cobbled classics, but if we don't recognise that there's a hell of a lot of luck involved in riding pave (as well as technique, power etc)... I'm still not convinced they have a real place in a GT.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    edited October 2017
    TheBigBean wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Looking back at that 1972 Tour shows the myth of exciting Tours of old. There were only 12 teams with 11 riders each. Three of those teams won 18 of the 25 stages between them and provided 3 or the top 4 on GC and won all classifications. Merckx and Guimard were the only wearers of both the yellow and green jerseys. Only four riders finished within twenty minutes of Merckx (and three of them were Tour winners themselves - so not a low standard).

    Imagine watching that live every day.

    References to exciting racing in the past are usually about the 80s. Someone winning everything is always going to be dull.
    So to make the Tour exciting what we actually have to nothing to with radios or powermeters or teams. What we need to do is shoot the dominant rider of the time.

    80s cycling was good at times but it was like McDonalds. I got to see it maybe once or twice a year and I was a kid. Now we're in the cycling equivalent of Supersize Me and a Big Mac is less alluring even though it's the same as it's always been.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    Lance banging on abut passage du gois. Seems to think it'll be carnage.
  • Lance banging on abut passage du gois. Seems to think it'll be carnage.

    Isn't that the bit they aren't doing now because of the tides?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Lance banging on abut passage du gois. Seems to think it'll be carnage.
    It won't be. It's right at the beginning of the stage (as it was in 2011). They'll take it easy. In 1999, when there was carnage, it was in the middle of the stage.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,843
    Cobble stage same day as football world cup final.
    Odds on a France v Belgium final that day?
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Lance banging on abut passage du gois. Seems to think it'll be carnage.
    It won't be. It's right at the beginning of the stage (as it was in 2011). They'll take it easy. In 1999, when there was carnage, it was in the middle of the stage.

    And they're going over the bridge.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    orraloon wrote:
    Cobble stage same day as football world cup final.
    Odds on a France v Belgium final that day?
    It's Putin's World Cup. It'll be Russia v Russia B (formerly Ukraine)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    sherer wrote:
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.

    What, a three week Eneco Tour?

    Shudder...
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    Timoid. wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.

    What, a three week Eneco Tour?

    Shudder...

    was thinking a few LBL like stages, hilly stages and but no high mountains. Something to drop the pack but a route that would keep the classics men still in contention. If such a route as possible. Canc has won TdS, Sagan has won ToC both of which have a lot of climbing but no high passes.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Timoid. wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.

    What, a three week Eneco Tour?

    Shudder...
    The Eneco Tour, the Tour of Britain and the Tour of Poland back to back
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,029
    sherer wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.

    What, a three week Eneco Tour?

    Shudder...

    was thinking a few LBL like stages, hilly stages and but no high mountains. Something to drop the pack but a route that would keep the classics men still in contention. If such a route as possible. Canc has won TdS, Sagan has won ToC both of which have a lot of climbing but no high passes.

    They do have stages like that. But they're not ridden hard like single day races because there's no incentive to. Its also a lit warmer and most of the riders are fitter than in April.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    gsk82 wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    what i'd really love to see in a GT would be one with no high moutains. Imagine a route a rider like Sagan \ Cancellara could win. Why not have more riders in contention by avoiding the high passes altogether. In my head it seems like a great idea but cant ever see the organisers doing it.

    What, a three week Eneco Tour?

    Shudder...

    was thinking a few LBL like stages, hilly stages and but no high mountains. Something to drop the pack but a route that would keep the classics men still in contention. If such a route as possible. Canc has won TdS, Sagan has won ToC both of which have a lot of climbing but no high passes.

    They do have stages like that. But they're not ridden hard like single day races because there's no incentive to. Its also a lit warmer and most of the riders are fitter than in April.

    That's because all the action happens in the high mountains so everyone waits for those days. What is there were no high mountains, then how would those stages be raced ?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    I once designed a one week route on procycling manager 2008 which was the following:

    Stage 1: MSR
    Stage 2: Roubaix
    Stage 3: LBL
    Stage 4: classic Alp D'Huez stage (here: https://thebrandbuilder.files.wordpress ... file17.gif)
    Stage 5: 55km flat TT.


    Stijn Devolder crushed everyone, every time.

    I'd back Valverde on that course this year.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    I once designed a one week route on procycling manager 2008 which was the following:

    Stage 1: MSR
    Stage 2: Roubaix
    Stage 3: LBL
    Stage 4: classic Alp D'Huez stage (here: https://thebrandbuilder.files.wordpress ... file17.gif)
    Stage 5: 55km flat TT.


    Stijn Devolder crushed everyone, every time.

    I'd back Valverde on that course this year.

    I'd take Nibs
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    I'd back Dumoulin on that course - the TT is the most decisive stage. Alpe d'Huez isn't particularly hard (relative to some climbs) and he'll still be fresh for the TT. With a harder mountain (say Ventoux) I'd still back Froome (depends on time bonuses)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    3 horse race!

    Who has current procycling manager?? anyone?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    Importantly, they were all full length, so they covered 800km in the first 3 days....
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Importantly, they were all full length, so they covered 800km in the first 3 days....
    You and your tank obsession again
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    Guilty.

    You’ll know what I mean more if you ride more ;)
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Guilty.

    You’ll know what I mean more if you ride more ;)
    I’m not saying you’re wrong
    Twitter: @RichN95
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