Vuelta Podium Girls Change

If we're talking about the affect it has on young girls growing up and their values etc, then podium girls are a not even a drop in the ocean in comparison to most of the tripe they have to put up with from the entertainment industry.

apreading wrote:

And in answer to carpet man above - lack of femail F1 mechanics and engineers has nothing to do with sexism. F1 teams are one of the greatest meritocracies. It all about perfomance and if you think they would pass over a better engineer to hire a lesser man instead then you are wrong. We have had a couple of female team principals now too.

it might be a great meritocracy. The point is that they see only men there and assume that women aren't allowed. It absolutely affects the way they see the world and their place in it. As do podium girls.

underlayunderlay wrote:

apreading wrote:

And in answer to carpet man above - lack of femail F1 mechanics and engineers has nothing to do with sexism. F1 teams are one of the greatest meritocracies. It all about perfomance and if you think they would pass over a better engineer to hire a lesser man instead then you are wrong. We have had a couple of female team principals now too.

it might be a great meritocracy. The point is that they see only men there and assume that women aren't allowed. It absolutely affects the way they see the world and their place in it. As do podium girls.

Then it is their job to become a great engineer and change the balance. Removing podium girls wont help achieve this. Nor will applying quotas to artifically stimulate hiring of less qualified females in preference to males. Honestly, as a parent you should be explaining that the lack of female engineers in F1 is not about sexism, its about girls their age not choosing to train to do the job for no earthly reason.

Removing podium girls wont even register in the scheme of things, its just a drop in the ocean compared to all the TV ads, love island, the movie industry etc.

There is plenty of girl doctor stuff out there though, you have just offered a blinkered view:

Dinyull wrote:

apreading wrote:

And in answer to carpet man above - lack of femail F1 mechanics and engineers has nothing to do with sexism. F1 teams are one of the greatest meritocracies. It all about perfomance and if you think they would pass over a better engineer to hire a lesser man instead then you are wrong. We have had a couple of female team principals now too.

And one of the best race strategists is female - Ruth Buscombe.

A problem with F1 mecahnics is an important part of the job is physical - the pit stops. I'm not saying it's impossible a female could do the job - not at all - but I'm sure it plays a role.

And I'd love to see how many female applicants they receive.

And I recall a few femail engineers (Red Bull and Mercedes certainly) representing the teams on the podium after a race win.

apreading wrote:

What I cant find is any child sets for boys to be nurses - so it is actually the males who are being discriminated against and told they cant follow a particular career!

I don't know why you present this as a triumph? It's every bit the same tragedy.

apreading wrote:

There is plenty of girl doctor stuff out there though, you have just offered a blinkered view:

There are some, and thanks to lots of campaigning it's slowly getting better. But look at what you've posted - all "girls" versions. Pink. Glitter. All still saying that there is a difference.

If you can't look around the world and see how girls are told from their very earliest years that their options are different to boys you must be blind.

Is being a Podium Girl any different to a modelling career ?

I wouldn't be surprised if they're hired through modelling agencies.

Have many of you outraged people have actually asked the podium girls their opinion, are they happy? Did anyone hold a gun to their head and forced the Podium Girls to do that job against their wishes? How would the Podium Girls feel if you made them redundant, especially those seeking portfolios for modelling contracts.

If you think podium girls are bad... How many female television anchors get their job, because of their looks?

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's more what it represents.

The men are there for their abilities and achievements. The women to be good looking as adornments for the photo.

^This. As a woman and someone who has loved cycling as a sport to watch and as a sport to do my whole life. It bothers me for exactly this reason.

BM5 wrote:

A step in the right direction. These things definitely do matter. Not too great if they are just adding good looking guys. What about ex pro from the area or something like that.

This would be a good idea, or some local cyclist or other sports person who is successful.

Something that seems to be missing from the discussion is that the world of VIP hosting is presumably heavily dominated by attractive women. It's just this type of event where they become publicly visible.

The argument that "they enjoy it therefore it's fine" is a bit of a red herring - I'm sure they do enjoy it, but fundamentally you're talking about a job role which is gendered for no good reason.

Above The Cows wrote:

BM5 wrote:

A step in the right direction. These things definitely do matter. Not too great if they are just adding good looking guys. What about ex pro from the area or something like that.

This would be a good idea, or some local cyclist or other sports person who is successful.

I prefer junior racers or having a competition for local kids to enter etc. - gives them a chance to meet their heroes and would be really good for outreach/engagement/PR. Make it mean something.

bobmcstuff wrote:

I'm sure they do enjoy it, but fundamentally you're talking about a job role which is gendered for no good reason.

This is a big part of my issue with it (I'm not very good at articulating everything that gets my goat with it, as you might have gathered). If you explicitly make some roles gendered, especially without any good reason to do so, then it reinforces the idea that implicit genderisation must also have a reason.

That's why my daughter's reaction to Formula 1 mechanics stuck in my mind - they saw an exclusively male garage and wondered why women weren't allowed, rather than assuming it was just one of those things and that the opportunities were equal. Telling them that some jobs are reserved for certain genders only reinforces that.

underlayunderlay wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I'm sure they do enjoy it, but fundamentally you're talking about a job role which is gendered for no good reason.

This is a big part of my issue with it (I'm not very good at articulating everything that gets my goat with it, as you might have gathered). If you explicitly make some roles gendered, especially without any good reason to do so, then it reinforces the idea that implicit genderisation must also have a reason.

That's why my daughter's reaction to Formula 1 mechanics stuck in my mind - they saw an exclusively male garage and wondered why women weren't allowed, rather than assuming it was just one of those things and that the opportunities were equal. Telling them that some jobs are reserved for certain genders only reinforces that.

But surely by the same token, they will still wonder why women dont ride in the same races? Some jobs are reserved for certain genders only. And surely the gender being discriminated against in the case of podium girls is the men?

In fact formula 1 is possibly the only sport which doesnt segregate the sexes in competition.

Whats the logical end point of all this though?

What about when your daughter asks why there are no women in Froome's group up the Galibier? Is it sexist to have separate men's and women's races? Is it sexist if we have single sex races and the men always win?

underlayunderlay wrote:

apreading wrote:

But surely by the same token, they will still wonder why women dont ride in the same races?

We have those discussions, and we talk about why bodies are different, and we talk about why the most important thing about sport is that it should be interesting to watch, and why watching Lizzie Deignan get spat out the back on the first climb wouldn't make for compelling viewing - but watching her take on someone with broadly the same physiology is quite fun. We also talk about why women's sport across the board is chronically and disgracefully underfunded and under-reported.

This is going to sound a bit quattro formaggi but your daughter is lucky to have a dad like you.