11 speed cassette cut to 10
mattsccm
Posts: 409
I plan to swap my ancient BB7 cable discs on my road bike to hydros. Both sets of wheels are too nice to ditch but they have older 10 speed Hope hubs which Hope tell me can't take a 11 speed freehub. The obvious option is to use 10 from 11 with a 11 speed cassette. Thing is which cassette. What I don't want to lose is anything in the middle and almost all cassettes come with the biggest 3 or 4 sprockets joined onto a carrier which I can't break up. Other wise I would do something like ditch the biggest. I could happily live without an 11 .Is there any cassette that I can do this with? How does the lock ring fit?
Any other ideas?
A short version? Which cassette to split up?
Any other ideas?
A short version? Which cassette to split up?
0
Comments
-
I plan to swap my ancient BB7 cable discs on my road bike to hydros. Both sets of wheels are too nice to ditch but they have older 10 speed Hope hubs which Hope tell me can't take a 11 speed freehub. The obvious option is to use 10 from 11 with a 11 speed cassette. Thing is which cassette. What I don't want to lose is anything in the middle and almost all cassettes come with the biggest 3 or 4 sprockets joined onto a carrier which I can't break up. Other wise I would do something like ditch the biggest. I could happily live without an 11 .Is there any cassette that I can do this with? How does the lock ring fit?
Any other ideas?
A short version? Which cassette to split up?
Is it possible? Aren't the cogs and spacers narrower to fit all 11 into the given width?0 -
Its is , that's the point. You use 10 out of the 11 plus the spacer that you removed.
Just want to now what cassettes allow me to lose the biggest or smallest sprocket.0 -
I suppose if you got an 11sp RD and constrained it using the limit screws (if possible) to 10 steps that might work. Then you'd need to remove a step (only 1 tooth I guess - so the cog nearest the fixed stack - and, even then, I don't know if the steps would work) and you'd need to create the right spacer on the inside.
Personally it seems unnecessarily difficult.
I think, if I were going to all that trouble, I'd just get the wheels rebuilt with new full 11-speed hubs.
Or, better still, fit HyRds with the original 10sp set-up.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Drill, or punch the rivets out that hold the cluster together, and remove the largest. You'll probably need the front brake/shifter from the 11 speed because of the aforementioned spacing0
-
Don't blame me if this turns out to be hearsay (do your own research) but my understanding is that the new Tiagra uses the same cable pull ratio to change gears as shimano 11 speed - so internally, the 4700 brifters are basically identical to 5800, just with one fewer notch.
Which means that if you put a 4700 tiagra rear dérailleur on a bike with 5800 shifters, then the gear change should match up nicely with a regular ten speed cassette.
At £25 or so for the 4700 rear derailleur it's a fairly cheap theory to test before spending a whole lot of money on new wheels and 11 speed gear (which lets face it, you'll be doing sooner or later....)0 -
Would that also mean that 4700 Tiagra is thus incompatible with everything else 10 speed that Shimano makes?!0
-
Well, with the exceptions of the cassettes and chainsets yes, and that appears to be confirmed by this chap here on chainreaction:
http://answers.chainreactioncycles.com/answers/5230-en_gb/product/prod137774/shimano-shimano-tiagra-4700-10-speed-rear-mech-questions-answers/questions.htmI found out the expensive way the derailleur is not compatible with the older 4600 STI shifters. The cable pull ratio is different, confirmed by LBS, so I had to buy the 4700 STI shifters. Direct quote from the 4700 STI page.
"No, Shimano have changed the routing and cable pull ratio on the new 4700 Tiagra so they are only currently compatible with their corresponding 4700 and 4703 derailleurs. They won't work correctly with the earlier generation 10 speed systems."0 -
Well that's a bugger as previously all Shimano 10 speed stuff has worked nicely together. I had thought of building up a bike from spares including 105 10 speed mechs and a set of 4700 STIs but that isn't going to work.0
-
Well, unfortunate for you, perhaps fortunate for mattsccmWell that's a bugger as previously all Shimano 10 speed stuff has worked nicely together. I had thought of building up a bike from spares including 105 10 speed mechs and a set of 4700 STIs but that isn't going to work.
Still, if he goes ahead he might have some 5700 brifters he can sell you?0 -
Re. the 10 speed cassettes for 4700, interestingly if you look at the Shimano compatibility table for the new 4700 group there is no CS-4700 cassette and non of the previous 10sp, CS-4600, CS-5700, CS-6700 cassettes are listed as compatible.
The cassette listed for the 4700 STI and RD is CS-HG500-10 11-25T, 11-32T, 11-34T and 12-28T so the OP could possibly use the 12-28T or not?
Does this mean there is a difference in the 10sp sprocket spacing between the earlier 4600, 5700, 6700 and the 4700 (CS-HG500-10) cassettes?0 -
As i read the OP, he has a 10sp set up but is going to a full hydro disk brake system, so has to use 11sp sti's? so will need to fit the spacing of an 11sp cass but only has 10sp hubs?
So, get rid of the 3rd smallest cog (14t) - or 13t if the 12 doesnt lock into it? and separate spacer on a 11sp 5800 12-25 cass, and experiment with, what if any spacer will need to be fitted to F/H, adjust limit screws on RD.
Machining rivets off cassettes largest carrier wont work as the carrier will still be too wide, unless carrier is also machined too but a faff.0 -
Lookyhere has it but sadly it means ditching more useful sprockets instead of ones I don't use. Every 11 speed cassette I know has the bigger sprockets on a carrier so they can't be ditched. Other wise it would be easy.I rarely use an 11 as at the speed needed to twiddle that I can freewheel as fast.
Shimano ideas possible but as I can't abide the Shimano system of shifting I was going SRAM anyway.
Ta anyway0 -
Anyone know of a 11 speed cassette that is just individual sprockets.? That way I can just bin the biggest.0
-
Seen that but price is a touch steep!0
-
I don't think such a cassette exists. You'll probably need to take a gear out of the middle somewhere.
This might leave you with a big shift there, but you can smooth that out by combing eg an 11-28 with an 11-25 cassette (so if you take out eg the 18 from the 11-28 then put the big gear carrier on from the 11-25 that might give you a smooth gear progression).0 -
May well have the answer.
Buy 11 speed 11 up cassette. Buy spare 12t first position sprocket.
Chuck both 11t and 12 t from Cassette and replace with new sprocket plus any spacers as needed.
Job done I think.
It works chopping 10 down to 9 if such a thing was needed.0 -
I am working on an answer to this for the same reason.
Which is, to get 2 11speed cassettes, one 11 up and one 12 up. On the 11up cassette remove 11.12.13, and replace with 12.13 from the other. This gets you a 10 speed cassette with 11 speed spacing, and no funny gaps.
In fact I think the 12.13 pair from a spare 10 speed cassette are close enough in dimensions for the same swap to work perfectly.
I have bought all the bits to do this but not built it yet, let me know if you get there first.0 -
If it helps, a lot of cassettes aren't riveted together - they are very small Allen bolts (2mm or similar) - they just look like rivets.
I take them apart quite often for the single sprocket for home made single speed bikes.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Ta
It's the fact that the biggest are on a carrier that is the pain. I could just chop of the biggest with its chunk of carrier I suppose but I forsee something not going right:)
Could split 2 cassette's but that's not cheap although bargains are out there.0 -
You should be able to counter-bore the back of spider so you can fit all 11 speeds. You need to machine off about 1.5mm to a diameter larger than the freehub body.0
