If you could only have one tubular tire......

Why not tick both your boxes by having Rhino tread fitted on a FMB tyre. Get in contact with FMB to see if it's possible.

I got my Rhinos from empella and they sell FMB tyres too so might be worth getting in contact with them to see if it's possible.

(although we've not seen much yet this season you know it's coming)

You may see some this weekend, rained for the last three days, on and off and a bit heavy at times. At training yesterday the ground was cutting up with only 7 of us going round. That's in the next town to where you'll be racing BTW.

I have some tubulars coming and will be gluing Limus on to them. Mainly because I have raced the clincher version for a couple of years and like them but also based on price. Was tempted by FMB super muds but put off by the high maintenance. Seeing as all Challenge's open tubulars are made using the same carcass as the tubulars you can judge their longevity by your clinchers. Mine have lasted ok, I do have some of the tread de-laminating though but the sidewalls are fine.

You know me too well TGOTB. A tub thread always proves irresistible.

@OP - I have tried cross tubs from most manufacturers by now, the notable exceptions being Specialized, Schwalbe and Continental. They are very much a minority group in the cross field, though that does not mean they don't work. I know strong riders using tubs from all three. Perhaps, as TGOTB is hinting, the tyres don't make as much difference as we think.

Of the manufacturers I have tried, I would eliminate Vittoria and Dugast from your list. Vittoria make great road tubs, but their cross offering does not perform at low pressures. Dugast are just too frail. Quality of manufacture is quite poor as well.

So what's left:

FMB - great tubs. I used to consider them too expensive when there were just a few grey imports retailing at £85, but with euro fx bringing them to £55 when you buy direct from Francois they are incredible value. Deliciously supple sidewalls that bring out incredible performance at well under 20 psi, and a huge range of tread patterns. The Supermud is easily a match for the Rhino, I can't think of a single type of terrain the Rhino is better at. Yes they are still fragile due to the cotton carcass, but much better quality than Dugast, and crucially, factory applied sidewall coating. You still need to look after them really well, but you're realistically looking at two seasons rather than half a season, which is what I got with my last set of Dugasts. Most importantly of all, you can get them with service course stenciled on the sidewalls.

Challenge - two options here, the synthetic and the cotton carcass. The synthetic is indestructible (well, you know what I mean) and has a definite low pressure limit below which it does not perform well. This is a bit rider dependent but for me around 19-21psi. The cotton one is without this limitation, but suffers from sidewall rot just like FMB does. Not as bad as Dugast. Limus tread is the Land Rover option. Amazing traction in gloop, but does not corner as well, and especially not on off-camber, as the Rhino/Supermud hook system, which seems to have magical properties in certain conditions.

Tufo/Clement - Tufo make the Clement tubs, which is why I'm grouping these, although the Clement range has a different set of tread patterns. In terms of performance, these are comparable to the synthetic casing Challenge tubs. They are ultra durable as well, and this makes them particularly suitable for the one arrow quill. Due to their construction, you can pre-load them with sealant, and be virtually puncture proof. I have not tried their intermediate tread, but the mud rolls fast and would be my choice for the one tub only set.

One final thing to mention. Consider your post race tub care. If you can wash and dry your wheels straight after a race, then store in a dry area you should be able to get along well with the cotton carcass-ed tubs. If you are going to chuck them in a garage wet and muddy, and clean them when you get a chance - which, let's be honest is the case for most weekend warriors - then Challenge or Tufo is the way to go.

I have changed from Challenge Limus to Clement Crusade PDX as my one set only on the main bike, with the Limus over on the pit bike now. The level of grip difference is astounding, but my Limus are the cheaper Service course, not the Team Edition.

I haven't had a proper muddy race yet this year but the PDX certainly doesnt feel like it is much draggier on damp grassy courses than any other patterns I have tried before. I am a big fan for the reasons listed above.

Four seasons is good going!

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19735852#p19735852]Supernaut[/url] wrote:

They're still going strong

In that case, you might be able to give me some advice. The weak point of my FMBs seems to be the edge of the base tape. The tape is wider than my 25mm rims, and sooner or later the edge of the tape starts to come away from the carcass of the tyre. Doesn't cause any structural issues, but does let water in!

Gluing this back on with mastik doesn't seem like a good idea (too stiff). I've tried Copydex, which seems to do the job but doesn't last forever.

Any better suggestions?