Mechanical Doping update
Comments
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Issue about to be discussed on Hawsky and Jacobs Talksport afternoon radio show - be interesting to hear their ireverant take on things.0
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If your rider is popped for doping then you can claim ignorance. If an electric motor is found in your rider's frame then there is no conceivable way that you could claim that the team didn't know. This is why I think it's unlikely that motors have been used.0
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If your rider is popped for doping then you can claim ignorance. If an electric motor is found in your rider's frame then there is no conceivable way that you could claim that the team didn't know. This is why I think it's unlikely that motors have been used.
+1
Bye bye team, bye bye massive sponsorship deals etc. etc.
Plus I'd be interested to hear what H&J had to say on the matter if anyone listened?0 -
If your rider is popped for doping then you can claim ignorance. If an electric motor is found in your rider's frame then there is no conceivable way that you could claim that the team didn't know. This is why I think it's unlikely that motors have been used.
+1
Bye bye team, bye bye massive sponsorship deals etc. etc.
Plus I'd be interested to hear what H&J had to say on the matter if anyone listened?
H&J Had someone on from Procycling magazine (Ed somebody if I recall?) - spent most of the quite brief discussion talking more about the "ethics" of mechanical doping over chemical doping. Basically deemed mech doping totally unethical and worthy of a lifetime ban as opposed to the current two year deal for chemical doping.
They didn't really discuss the the validity of the power output claims and didn't question the journo either on this. Nearest they got was to surmise that because the UCI were taking the possibility seriously then there may be something in it but thought it unlikely.
Forgive me if my recall isn't the best as I was at work with the radio on fairly low volume and some people just don't know when to leave you alone do they!?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19640152#p19640152]my grandad's bike[/url] wrote:H&J Had someone on from Procycling magazine (Ed somebody if I recall?) - spent most of the quite brief discussion talking more about the "ethics" of mechanical doping over chemical doping. Basically deemed mech doping totally unethical and worthy of a lifetime ban as opposed to the current two year deal for chemical doping.
They didn't really discuss the the validity of the power output claims and didn't question the journo either on this. Nearest they got was to surmise that because the UCI were taking the possibility seriously then there may be something in it but thought it unlikely.
Forgive me if my recall isn't the best as I was at work with the radio on fairly low volume and some people just don't know when to leave you alone do they!?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Thanks grandad0
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Joel reminds me of Captain Redbeard Rum in Blackadder II with his views on whether a ship needs a crew 'opinion is divided, all the other captain's say you do but I say you don't'.0
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Joel reminds me of Captain Redbeard Rum in Blackadder II with his views on whether a ship needs a crew 'opinion is divided, all the other captain's say you do but I say you don't'.
The thing is Pross. My stance is, and has always been that motors have been used and that the UCI won't find any now as no rider is stupid enough to use one now they are being looked for. Why ignore LeMond and Ferrari's inside knowledge on this? It's not like Ferrari isn't always spot on is it?0 -
From the horse's mouth that the Stage one winner was a mech-doper
Tejay Van Garderen to ITV
"Man, the whole thing was just a blur - we had to make sure we stayed together, and on the climbs we had to make sure the stronger guys pulled longer. Rohan Dennis was the key to the team, the guy's just got a motor."
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2015-tour-stage-9-reaction-van-garderen-praises-dennis
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From the horse's mouth that the Stage one winner was a mech-doper
Tejay Van Garderen to ITV
"Man, the whole thing was just a blur - we had to make sure we stayed together, and on the climbs we had to make sure the stronger guys pulled longer. Rohan Dennis was the key to the team, the guy's just got a motor."
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2015-tour-stage-9-reaction-van-garderen-praises-dennis
I told you so!0 -
Here's the bit I don't get. A motor and battery small enough to be hidden but powerful enough to actually make a difference is really only going to be useful for maybe a few minutes. That doesn't really seem all that useful in a 5 hour race. I would have thought the obvious place for hidden motors would be on the track. A ten second burst of an extra 100w at the end of a Keiran would actually be useful on the Japanese pro circuit.
Ask any rider who's missed the split in the crosswinds by a few seconds if a short burst of 100w would have made the difference. Or anyone who lost 10-30 seconds getting dropped on the final climb of the day...
It's about key points in a race where an extra burst of speed can make a huge difference to a Pro rider. Not a motor that would turn a club rider into a Pro by virtue of being able to power off the front of the bunch all day long.0 -
mmm, not really a big step form something like this
http://www.cnet.com/products/specialized-turbo-electric-assisted-bicycle/
or this
http://www.coboc.biz/?lang=en
to imagining what could be fabricated into a bespoke carbon TT frame/disc wheel set up for budgets well within the reach of any pro team particularly bearing in mind they probably would not be looking at needing 250 watts when 25 watts could provide a race winning differential.
Whether a team would sanction it or entertain it is another question,
It is not as if any pro team sanctioned doping, even though the consequences were anything from disgrace like the Festina Affair OR even death of your rider....
I would imagine UCI think there is a risk some may be tempted by the tech so behind the scenes I am sure discussions have taken place?fay ce que voudres0 -
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I would imagine UCI think there is a risk some may be tempted by the tech so behind the scenes I am sure discussions have taken place?
If you look at the image FocusZing posted, that sort of motor size and position is what seems to be the standard even on the much more recent commercially available models. You can certainly do a lot to hide it and the battery and the controller from a casual visual inspection, but if you have UCI inspectors popping out your seatpost and cranks there is no way they're going to miss spotting something like that.
Not to get Joel all excited, but given the fact that it's harder to conceal the evidence of mechanical doping it makes me think that anyone who is planning on doping at all is going to stick to the old-fashioned methods. A motor might give you a more reliable increase in performance but it's also going to get you absolutely nailed to the wall if you get caught.0 -
Whether a team would sanction it or entertain it is another question,
It is not as if any pro team sanctioned doping, even though the consequences were anything from disgrace like the Festina Affair OR even death of your rider....
I would imagine UCI think there is a risk some may be tempted by the tech so behind the scenes I am sure discussions have taken place?
I'm not sure the teams would sanction it - with regular doping they (try to) maintain "plausible deniability", i.e., "our guy has been caught doping - he must have been doing it on his own, nothing to do with us".
Whereas with motors in bikes so many people in the team would have to be complicit you wouldn't have that deniability.0 -
Whether a team would sanction it or entertain it is another question,
It is not as if any pro team sanctioned doping, even though the consequences were anything from disgrace like the Festina Affair OR even death of your rider....
I would imagine UCI think there is a risk some may be tempted by the tech so behind the scenes I am sure discussions have taken place?
I'm not sure the teams would sanction it - with regular doping they (try to) maintain "plausible deniability", i.e., "our guy has been caught doping - he must have been doing it on his own, nothing to do with us".
Whereas with motors in bikes so many people in the team would have to be complicit you wouldn't have that deniability.
Any rider getting caught with a motor would kill their team instantly. Stone dead.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Whether a team would sanction it or entertain it is another question,
It is not as if any pro team sanctioned doping, even though the consequences were anything from disgrace like the Festina Affair OR even death of your rider....
I would imagine UCI think there is a risk some may be tempted by the tech so behind the scenes I am sure discussions have taken place?
I'm not sure the teams would sanction it - with regular doping they (try to) maintain "plausible deniability", i.e., "our guy has been caught doping - he must have been doing it on his own, nothing to do with us".
Whereas with motors in bikes so many people in the team would have to be complicit you wouldn't have that deniability.
Any rider getting caught with a motor would kill their team instantly. Stone dead.
I dunno, I reckon Savio could style it out."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
“Yes my bike was checked but I’m happy they’re doing the checks. They’re probably needed considering all the rumours out there,” Froome said when asked by Cyclingnews. “I think most of the suspicion is on social media but they don’t come from nowhere, the technology exists.”0
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So they do take the cranks off to check with an endoscope.
It wont stop the tin foil hatters though. They believed the team GB joke of using rounder wheels at the Olympics and now the motors are in Froomes rear hub.0 -
So they do take the cranks off to check with an endoscope.
It wont stop the tin foil hatters though. They believed the team GB joke of using rounder wheels at the Olympics and now the motors are in Froomes rear hub.
Sky are smarter than that, it's in the front hub. But don't tell anyone.0 -
Now why would they want to 'hide it'?
http://video.gazzetta.it/vuelta-quel-cambio-bici-sospetto-movistar/8b8edfa6-540b-11e5-98c5-f6afd41df726?refresh_ce-cp0 -
Now why would they want to 'hide it'?
http://video.gazzetta.it/vuelta-quel-cambio-bici-sospetto-movistar/8b8edfa6-540b-11e5-98c5-f6afd41df726?refresh_ce-cp
Two race cars on each team - switching bike between them?0 -
Now why would they want to 'hide it'?
http://video.gazzetta.it/vuelta-quel-cambio-bici-sospetto-movistar/8b8edfa6-540b-11e5-98c5-f6afd41df726?refresh_ce-cpTwitter: @RichN950 -
Now why would they want to 'hide it'?
http://video.gazzetta.it/vuelta-quel-cambio-bici-sospetto-movistar/8b8edfa6-540b-11e5-98c5-f6afd41df726?refresh_ce-cp
Two race cars on each team - switching bike between them?
The narrative I gather translates as 'hide it'.0 -
Now why would they want to 'hide it'?
http://video.gazzetta.it/vuelta-quel-cambio-bici-sospetto-movistar/8b8edfa6-540b-11e5-98c5-f6afd41df726?refresh_ce-cp
Which is exactly what Movistar have said today.
But hey, mechanical doping.0 -
So, like, lets just assume for one second that that video shows Movistar support staff deliberately trying to cover up a nonlegal bike. Where does the assumption come from that the logical conclusion is that the bike contains a motor come from?
If I was to jump to the conclusion that what I was seeing was evidence of nefarious activities there multiple places I would think of as more obvious start points. It's just getting silly now.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
It's just getting silly now.
it got silly long before this0 -
the Inner Ring @inrng · 2 hrs2 hours ago
UCI examing bike at the CX worlds for a hidden motor http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-174751/ … Twitter says it belongs to of Femke van den Driessche
the Inner Ring
@inrng @WestemeyerSusan @bambula @stuckinoregon motor now confirmed by Belgian fed in press conf. But we don't know role of rider/mechanic etc“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
:shock:It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0