Teams/Clubs - 1st Claim/2nd Claim membership.
proto
Posts: 1,483
Situation has arisen in our club where a long standing member (8 years or so) has had some success at road racing and has been invited to join a team and to race in national level races. It's the step up in quality of races and competition that is attractive, plus the cameraderie that team riding brings, but they are also very appreciative of the financial support (entry fees, transport, kit, equipment etc) .
As a consequence they have changed their BC registration to reflect their status with their new team. Licence changed etc.
However, club membership rules (of their original club) have compelled them to drop to 2nd Claim membership with that club. As a consequence they lose most (all?) of the benefits of being in the club. E.G. can't compete for club trophies or club records. Not eligible for club hill climb, nor the club evening TT league. Unable to vote at AGM or be a club official, etc. etc.
This seems to me to be a poor situation where instead of strengthening links to the upper echelons of the racing world, links are being broken. 2nd claim doesn't really give much incentive to hang around. The view of the club member concerned is that their 'team' is not a club, merely a mechanism for BC to allocate point correctly, and that membership should be equal to all within the club and 2nd Claim status should be abandoned/discontinued. They don't want to leave the club, they enjoy the friendships they've built up over the years, the club runs and so on, but they also wish to enjoy the same club benefits that other member enjoy.
Anyone got a view on this. Is this situation the norm or a throwback to the 50/60s when race teams were less prevalent? What do other clubs do?
Cheers
As a consequence they have changed their BC registration to reflect their status with their new team. Licence changed etc.
However, club membership rules (of their original club) have compelled them to drop to 2nd Claim membership with that club. As a consequence they lose most (all?) of the benefits of being in the club. E.G. can't compete for club trophies or club records. Not eligible for club hill climb, nor the club evening TT league. Unable to vote at AGM or be a club official, etc. etc.
This seems to me to be a poor situation where instead of strengthening links to the upper echelons of the racing world, links are being broken. 2nd claim doesn't really give much incentive to hang around. The view of the club member concerned is that their 'team' is not a club, merely a mechanism for BC to allocate point correctly, and that membership should be equal to all within the club and 2nd Claim status should be abandoned/discontinued. They don't want to leave the club, they enjoy the friendships they've built up over the years, the club runs and so on, but they also wish to enjoy the same club benefits that other member enjoy.
Anyone got a view on this. Is this situation the norm or a throwback to the 50/60s when race teams were less prevalent? What do other clubs do?
Cheers
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Comments
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Bring it up at the club AGM if you have one !proto wrote:Situation has arisen in our club where a long standing member (8 years or so) has had some success at road racing and has been invited to join a team and to race in national level races. It's the step up in quality of races and competition that is attractive, plus the cameraderie that team riding brings, but they are also very appreciative of the financial support (entry fees, transport, kit, equipment etc) .
As a consequence they have changed their BC registration to reflect their status with their new team. Licence changed etc.
However, club membership rules (of their original club) have compelled them to drop to 2nd Claim membership with that club. As a consequence they lose most (all?) of the benefits of being in the club. E.G. can't compete for club trophies or club records. Not eligible for club hill climb, nor the club evening TT league. Unable to vote at AGM or be a club official, etc. etc.
This seems to me to be a poor situation where instead of strengthening links to the upper echelons of the racing world, links are being broken. 2nd claim doesn't really give much incentive to hang around. The view of the club member concerned is that their 'team' is not a club, merely a mechanism for BC to allocate point correctly, and that membership should be equal to all within the club and 2nd Claim status should be abandoned/discontinued. They don't want to leave the club, they enjoy the friendships they've built up over the years, the club runs and so on, but they also wish to enjoy the same club benefits that other member enjoy.
Anyone got a view on this. Is this situation the norm or a throwback to the 50/60s when race teams were less prevalent? What do other clubs do?
Cheers0 -
proto wrote:Anyone got a view on this. Is this situation the norm or a throwback to the 50/60s when race teams were less prevalent? What do other clubs do?
If your notion of 1st/2nd claim is tied to BC, then it's not a throwback to the 50/60s, it must be a relatively modern rule.
I think it's fine to not be elligible for prizes in the club you don't race for, and I wouldn't really want a member who races elite for their team but is desperate to clean up in the chipperist of races against his old club mates.
The other benefits? You could change the rules on the officials and stuff, but I really doubt that's holding people up, breaking the link between BC claim and club claim would be enough I'd've thought anyway.
If the guy wants the friendships and the ability to ride with his mates, it's hardly an expensive thing to keep membership up on. So seems fine to me.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
You cant have your cake and it eat it.
He has chosen to go ride for another set up, get all the benefits that entails but still wants all the benefits from his old club.
Some time ago, we were in a similar situation and the rider who left (and he was on the committee too) tried altering kit supplier, getting the club RR to be an e12 instead of a 2/3/4, the following AGM, the rules were changed, limiting 2nd claim member benefits.0 -
There are clearly somethings you can do with multiple clubs. You can take part in club events, you can help out at club events. You can pay multiple sets of membership fees. It doesn't seem unreasonable that you could vote if you have paid the membership fees.
However if you have multiple clubs you can only race for one. You probably can't do an adequately good job for the committee of a 2nd club. It seems reasonable to prevent you winning the trophies of one club while riding for another. You shouldn't try to turn your second club to a feeder or supporter club to your first one if it isn't in everyone's interest.
As mentioned, a discussion at the AGM as to what to allow multiple club members to do is best.0 -
Thanks all for replies, food for thought.
The argument of the individual concerned is that their new team is not a club. Quite different. Commercially funded, not open to hew members, no social side or organised rides etc. A race team pure and simple.0 -
proto wrote:The argument of the individual concerned is that their new team is not a club. Quite different. Commercially funded, not open to hew members, no social side or organised rides etc. A race team pure and simple.
Which is again, all about the self... Why does he feel that as a funded athlete, he should be able to compete against his club mates for the club prizes? If he was moaning about no longer being able to be the road race organiser then there would be more sympathy!Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
I tend to agree with the view that if you want to maintain links with a club cough up if you want to be winning club trophies then you should be competing in their jersey.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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proto wrote:Thanks all for replies, food for thought.
The argument of the individual concerned is that their new team is not a club. Quite different. Commercially funded, not open to hew members, no social side or organised rides etc. A race team pure and simple.
How does the team, and their sponsors feel about him riding in the Club Jersey? It sounds a bit like he wants to have his cake and eat it.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0
