New wheels: Tubeless RR440, the best all round wheel?
drlodge
Posts: 4,947
Gave my news wheels a 40 mile blast today. Ugo built them with this spec:
Rim: DT Swiss RR440, asymmetric rear
Hubs & skewers: Hope Mono RS, gunmetal
Spokes front: 20x CX-Ray radial
Spokes rear: 28x Sapim D-light NDS, DT Alpine III DS 3x lacing
Tyres: Schwalbe One tubeless
Cost: hubs and skewers £212; rims and tyres: £171, spokes, build, valves & tape: £130
So just over £450 for the wheels excl tyres
I have to say they look fab, the aesthetics box gets a big tick. The rims give a chunkier look than the Ambrosio Excellights.
It took a while to get the feel of them, going up the hogs back initially I was able to maintain a good pace and found more of a feel of the road surface coming through (like the Vittoria Corsa EVO CX tyres) and the tyres also seem to provide more pneumatic suspension, giving a smooth ride. For most of the ride I was in a group which makes life easier but the pace was fast and I was easily keeping up with them. Faster seemed to be easier and 30 miles in it was time for Crocknorth. Well I smashed my PB good and proper; I did feel fresh but these wheels just seemed so much more efficient than the old ones.
Ugo reckons its probably down to the these tubeless tyres, but the wheels with its asymmetric rear rim design really provide the ideal hoop for the tyres to fit IMO. If you want to go fast period, then deep section carbon wheels are the way. But for everyday use with a mix of flats and hills I think these wheels and tyres are hard to beat, and supports the benefits of going with hand built wheels and freedom to select the precise components.
The bike
Rear
Front
Rear hub
Front hub and spokes
Rear asymmetric rim
Rim: DT Swiss RR440, asymmetric rear
Hubs & skewers: Hope Mono RS, gunmetal
Spokes front: 20x CX-Ray radial
Spokes rear: 28x Sapim D-light NDS, DT Alpine III DS 3x lacing
Tyres: Schwalbe One tubeless
Cost: hubs and skewers £212; rims and tyres: £171, spokes, build, valves & tape: £130
So just over £450 for the wheels excl tyres
I have to say they look fab, the aesthetics box gets a big tick. The rims give a chunkier look than the Ambrosio Excellights.
It took a while to get the feel of them, going up the hogs back initially I was able to maintain a good pace and found more of a feel of the road surface coming through (like the Vittoria Corsa EVO CX tyres) and the tyres also seem to provide more pneumatic suspension, giving a smooth ride. For most of the ride I was in a group which makes life easier but the pace was fast and I was easily keeping up with them. Faster seemed to be easier and 30 miles in it was time for Crocknorth. Well I smashed my PB good and proper; I did feel fresh but these wheels just seemed so much more efficient than the old ones.
Ugo reckons its probably down to the these tubeless tyres, but the wheels with its asymmetric rear rim design really provide the ideal hoop for the tyres to fit IMO. If you want to go fast period, then deep section carbon wheels are the way. But for everyday use with a mix of flats and hills I think these wheels and tyres are hard to beat, and supports the benefits of going with hand built wheels and freedom to select the precise components.
The bike
Rear
Front
Rear hub
Front hub and spokes
Rear asymmetric rim
WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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I'll need to measure up when I get home tonight, and I can't say how easy to fit they are since Ugo fited the tyres having built the wheel (see how good my local wheel builder is - not only does he build the wheel but supplies and fits the valves and rim tape, puts the tyre on and sealant too!). I believe the tyres are relatively easy to fit on these rims but Ugo would be the one to say.
I can say these are 23c tyres, as the RR440 rim is only a bit wider than old style rims so a 25c would have a bit of a bulb shape - they're not as wide as the Archetype. They look a tad wider than the old wheels which is to be expected. Will take a tape measure to them later and report.
I'm running them at 100psi back and 90psi front, I'm just over 12 stone. I ran the old tyres (Pro4 SC) at 110/100 for ages then tried them at 100/90 and they were fine. Reducing the pressure did make them more comfy and didn't affect rolling resistance from what I could tell.
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The tyres go on with bare hands on these rims, not difficult at all. However, these rims only seal correctly when the liquid is injected... I found wider rims seem to seal even without liquid
Nothing cheap about my caliper! Can't explain the difference, I measured the tyre width and it came up around 24.5-24.8mm. But if its the same measurement on the same wheel/tyre, at least one of us must be wrong! Outer rim width should be 21mm right? I'll take that as a reference and see what my tool says...
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If you want to go wider and stay tubed, then stick with the Archetypes is my view, they're a good rim. If tubeless then the Pacenti may work better for a wider tyre.
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The wider the tyre you want to use, the wider the rim you want to fit them to... I'd say these work best with 23 and the Pacenti work best with 25, although they work well with 23 too
Nice looking wheels either way!
Have narrowed down the rims to either DT Swiss 440 (asymmetric on rear and normal on front) or Velocity A23
Can I check the DT Swiss 440 will work OK with normal tyres rather than tubeless please? (i.e. they aren't aimed just at tubeless tyres and won't be a pain to get on and off if I use normal ones?)
They are brass washers I use to compensate the difference in width between the spoke and the hole... as you can see I have not used them on the rear drive side, because the Alpine 3 have a bigger section at the J, hence they are not needed. They tend to play a part in increasing fatigue life and they also protect the flange against possible cracks developing from the hole.
They are not needed in Shimano and DT Swiss hubs, as the holes are pretty tight anyway
Yes, you can use DT 440 with inner tubes.
Same as A 23. The A 23 are often slightly off shape at the junction opposite the valve hole, so no longer a builder's favourite, but for the end user is a non issue and they are very good rims
Great thanks. My "default" hub is often/usually Novatec, would you say they'd benefit from washers? They've never struck me as tight. Does this impact spoke length at all? Can't imagine it does but just wondered.
I normally use them with Novatec hubs.
For spoke length, I round up instead of rounding down if you use the DT washers. If you use the Sapim ones, then you might want a full extra millimeter, as they are considerably ticker
Hi there
IIRC you said you had issues with tight clearances on your Rourke - how do you find these new wheels to fit?
It's just a hill. Get over it.
The clearance issue I have wit the Rourke is tyre to rear brake caliper arm, just off to the side of vertical there was only a couple of mm clearance. The One tubeless 23c compared to the Pro4 SC 23c...I'd say there's a smidge more clearance with the One tubeless, it appears to be not quite as "high" as the Michelin.
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I have some Ryde Pulse Sprint rims - internal 18mm, external 22mm - do you think these would be better with 23 or 25 tubeless? I've got some 25mm Schwalbe Ones but haven't fitted them yet.
23 for aerodynamics and tyre shape, but 25 if you live in the real world