Race Radios (NOT) Banned in 2015

The_Boy · December 2014

iainf72 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

I'm all for race radios being done away with. Power meters too. Can't say either particularly rile me though.

This is something that baffles me more than radios. For the life of me I can't understand what the fuss is about power meters.

[Not aimed at The_Boy] There seems to be an undercurrent that technology is somehow making races "less exciting". But the reality is that more exposure and increased professionalism is raising the stakes so everything is becoming more conservative. I think it was Andy Hampsten who I heard interviewed a few years ago who said when he started racing in Europe, races tended to start off 'piano' for the first few hours, then a mad flurry when TV started up. As more TV came along, the earlier the madness started.

27 / 28 years ago when I started watching cycling, Phil Ligget used to marvel at how the peloton managed to time their catches of escapees to perfection.

For clarity, my objection to power meters (as race radios, actually - just to keep it on topic) isn't to do with creating exciting racing. Until someone does an actual statistical analysis which shows otherwise, I'll assume it the presence or no of race radios or power meters have no real effect on the excitement of the racing, save for a handful of very specific incidences.

I suppose my objection is more...philosophical, for want of a better word. Riders can ride to their numbers with or without a power meter, so let them do so without a visual prompt. But as i said some comments back, it's not an objection that gets my back up particularly.

The_Boy · December 2014

Actually, to borrow an analogy from rugby, the tendency of water carriers to also carry instructions from the coaching staff bugs me, but not the sort of extent that I think Something Should be Done.

RichN95. · December 2014

The_Boy wrote:

I suppose my objection is more...philosophical, for want of a better word. Riders can ride to their numbers with or without a power meter, so let them do so without a visual prompt. But as i said some comments back, it's not an objection that gets my back up particularly.

Now that's an objection I can understand. I don't share it myself, but I understand it.

But as Iain has pointed out, blaming technology for duller racing (or at least the perception of it) is barking up the wrong tree.

DeadCalm · December 2014

RichN95 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Point 3 I concede. The others are irrelevant.

Why are they irrelevant? They make the wheel change quicker and more efficient.

DeadCalm wrote:

Hang on. But you said they had caught them earlier because either they'd popped or been discouraged.

No I said that the break - as a meaningful entity - would burn out earlier. The peloton can leave them hanging out them for as long as they like (breakaway riders are usually too stubborn to sit up).

I'm seven hours ahead of you, already in 2015 and have been celebrating appropriately. I shall postpone my response to this until I'm slightly more sober but shall, in the meantime, wish you and all other forum members a happy new year.

jerry3571 · January 2015

I think power meters might end up with more Mountain finishes where Froomey just time trials to the top and not bothering attacking; just looking at his power meter. (last year's Vuelta)
I think the argument about radios also takes out the riders being intelligent or not.
As for safety, the courses should be relatively safe to ride and riding unsafe courses are dangerous whether you have radios or not. Also, if radios are i use and there is a tricky point ahead then some riders choose to attack in these tricky spots as it's a good chance to get away. Chiapucci used to attack in tunnels to the dismay of most riders.
I've also seen the riders dodging around metal bollards in the road at the Tour of Flanders as well as potholes so if safety is an issue then things like this should be improved. Also, the course should be scoped out before the race prior to the race. It's being lazy to just ride the race and not know the parcours beforehand. Even using google streetmaps can help with this.

Pross · January 2015

DeadCalm wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Point 3 I concede. The others are irrelevant.

Why are they irrelevant? They make the wheel change quicker and more efficient.

DeadCalm wrote:

Hang on. But you said they had caught them earlier because either they'd popped or been discouraged.

No I said that the break - as a meaningful entity - would burn out earlier. The peloton can leave them hanging out them for as long as they like (breakaway riders are usually too stubborn to sit up).

I'm seven hours ahead of you, already in 2015 and have been celebrating appropriately. I shall postpone my response to this until I'm slightly more sober but shall, in the meantime, wish you and all other forum members a happy new year.

Must have been some party, 5 days later and still no response!! :shock:

Anonymous · January 2015

jerry3571 wrote:

I think power meters might end up with more Mountain finishes where Froomey just time trials to the top and not bothering attacking; just looking at his power meter. (last year's Vuelta)

I think Froome attacked more times in the Vuelta than he has in any other race since the 2012 tour

DeadCalm · January 2015

Pross wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Point 3 I concede. The others are irrelevant.

Why are they irrelevant? They make the wheel change quicker and more efficient.

DeadCalm wrote:

Hang on. But you said they had caught them earlier because either they'd popped or been discouraged.

No I said that the break - as a meaningful entity - would burn out earlier. The peloton can leave them hanging out them for as long as they like (breakaway riders are usually too stubborn to sit up).

I'm seven hours ahead of you, already in 2015 and have been celebrating appropriately. I shall postpone my response to this until I'm slightly more sober but shall, in the meantime, wish you and all other forum members a happy new year.

Must have been some party, 5 days later and still no response!! :shock:

Haha, fair enough. I believe the youngsters might say something along the lines of "owned". Sadly, sometimes real life gets in the way of me pontificating on this forum.

In any event, to deal with Rich's point, I just don't buy it. Breakaway riders are generally stubborn but they aren't on the whole a stupid breed. Maybe on a few occasions they will allow themselves to dangle off the front, in sight of the peloton, but they will become smarter. And if you have a break, away, just in front of the peloton, that is an invitation for a counter-attack. If that is the status quo then one tactic would surely be to get a sacrificial lamb in the break and, at the right moment, launch your genuine breakaway guy to link up. Maybe the big teams will develop tactics to counteract this and eventually it will settle down into a routine but to say that there would be zero impact is nonsense.

Coach H · January 2015

iainf72 wrote:

27 / 28 years ago when I started watching cycling, Phil Ligget used to marvel at how the peloton managed to time their catches of escapees to perfection.

With regard to most breaks I completely agree with Iain, that is my recollection too. Perhaps there was a bit more variation in the exact moment of the catch which allowed Ekimov (in particular) a chance to counter due to not having as up to date info available but most of the time the outcome was the same.

The only big example from the past where radio's would have directly influenced the result was the early stage in whatever Tour it was when Steve Bauer got the Yellow Jersey out of a group that got 9 minutes or so in a howling rainstorm. The conditions were so bad that the chalkboard bike couldn't communicate the time gap.

IMO all other historical examples mainly show how the racing has changed as the performance gap between riders in the whole peloton closes

jerry3571 · January 2015

I think the organisation of riders, without radios, is a lot more complicated when you have your riders spread throughout the peleton so a chase takes a lot more time to get going. All it needs now, with radios, is for the manager to say something and all the team can get to the front.
Also, a lot of riders do stupid things if left alone, like drift further back in to the bunch and talk or daydream when they should be concentrating. Now, a Manager can make sure all the Team is in place and have total control over the riders and this leads to no surprises.

deejay · January 2015

For all your arguments, you are not helping me to have increased enjoyment because all I see these days is a multitude of riders crossing the finish line within a short period.
Take MSR for example as it is just a matter these days of seeing a sprint.
A Monument, Never, that is long gone with Kelly perhaps.

ocdupalais · January 2015

Race radios - so, in who's interest is it?

As a middle-aged man in middle-management, are you seeking greater control of your staff? Of course you are. Same the world over.
Spend hours on the road in an unhealthy and pressurised environment - dealing with crisis after crisis?
Surging blood pressure not helped by erratic eating and a sense of powerlessness at key moments when the chips are down?
Feeling alienated from your younger, more inexperienced, associates on whom your success depends?
Remember what a berk you were at their age?
Wish they wouldn't be such t!ts when it matters?…
If so, then you need to, quite literally, GET INSIDE THEIR HEAD AND TELL THEM WHAT TO DO. It's the only way they'll learn. Just like everyone's sense of direction improves when they slavishly use Sat Nav...

Anonymous · January 2015

Listening to Brads book just now, and he makes it evidently clear that the road captain (for him it was Rodgers) sets the pace (or power) at which the team rides on a stage. Like when Cadel attacked and Teejay was up the road, Rodgers upped the pace to reign him in.

From the book, it seems that Yates spent time on the radio just telling him when riders were breaking, attacking etc rather than telling them what to do.

bobmcstuff · January 2015

Here's an idea - they keep race radios, but all the information is dispensed centrally by the race organisers. And 50% of that information is false. That would keep people on their toes

Race Radios (NOT) Banned in 2015

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