outturned feet, knee pain and pedal extensions...

optimisticbiker
optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
edited December 2014 in Road beginners
Been increasing the distance ridden on my new road bike and now touching on the 40mile+ distances but I have a problem. My right foot naturally turns out about 10-15degrees and after 30 miles or so my right knee is aching as the SL cleats are holding the foot parallel to the bike. I have tried adjusting the cleat on the base of the shoe but it makes little difference as i can't get enought 'turn', although the heel now catches the rear stay occasionally because I can't bring the shoe far enough forward.

Apart from re-engineering my leg (which seems a tad drastic) what can I do to correct this?... I have read about floating cleats but that wouldnt stop my heel hitting the stay.

Can you get something that extends the pedal outwards by 25mm or so - a washer wouldn't do it, it would need to be something that screws between the pedal and the crank. I had a look but a Google search turned up nothing suitable sourced in the UK

btw, I found these guys http://bikedynamics.co.uk/ that explain the issue on their website perfectly... but dont help with the bits to address it...

Anyone?
Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:

Comments

  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,660
    get a proper bike fit by a professional, they can examine how your foot is turning and perhaps correct/reduce it with footbed and/or shims

    with speedplay zero pedals you can independently set heel in and heel out, which might help you, but i'd really advise getting a proper assessment first, no point picking up an injury

    for instance, there a bg fit place only a few miles from edgware...

    http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.u ... &page_id=6
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    @sungod Thanks for that... i was seriously considering getting a proper fit, but I didnt know about the place in Ruislip... or rather I did know about its previous existence but not in its current guise or as a fit centre... as Action Bikes it used to sell BSOs badly (in my limited experienced) so I wonder how they fare now..

    Anyway I shall go in there and ask... was going to cycle past Ruislip tomorrow as it happens, its only a short way off my usual 30mile Sunday ride.
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,660
    bg fit is a specialized-owned program

    they set the standards/training and test/qualify people, so it *ought* to be done properly
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Cakegirl
    Cakegirl Posts: 66
    Hi Optimistic

    +1 for the Specialized BG Fit.

    Also - and apologies if you have thought of this already - would it be worth seeing a physio about the foot turnout? I have about 5 degree turnout on my right and therefore do not recruit my leg muscles evenly on each side, leading to glute and lower back pain. This affects me walking and driving too. My physio (sorry not in your area) has been briliiant about deconstructing muscle movement patterns and strengthening and stabilising me from the ground up. It can be slow, painstaking work but will be more and more worth it as you look to increase distance ad speed. Good luck!
    If everything's under control, you're obviously not going fast enough.
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    @cakegirl - had a BUPA wellman thing (company requirement) in January and the doc there was a sports physio said she could sort that but I never went back to her to find out what it entailed, how much, etc. I might have to do that...
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • Erudin
    Erudin Posts: 136
    edited April 2011
    I use Kneesavers Pedal Adaptors on my road bikes as my feet need to be toe-out.

    img03519367599.th.jpg

    img03499357336.th.jpg

    http://www.kneesaver.net/

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kneesavers-pedal-adaptors-prod14725/

    These look good, cheaper than Kneesavers:

    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/specialized-bg-pedal-item156427.html
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    @Erudin - thats the beasties... thanks for the links... wow they aren't cheap are they.... oh well, needs must....
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • Peddle Up!
    Peddle Up! Posts: 2,040
    I have this problem too and have investigated various solutions to it, including a full bike fit. I settled on pedal extenders and haven't looked back.
    Purveyor of "up" :)
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    @Erudin - the cheaper one should theoretically be available from the Specialized store in Ruislip that do the BG bike fit tho i cant find it on thier website - I wonder if its cheaper because its made of alloy rather than stainless steel

    Sadly the store is closed today, but open tomorrow :)... just means I'll need to go for another ride tomorrow!

    @Peddle Up! - did you actually get a bike fit? If not, how did you set the right cleat angle and what cleats do you use?
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • Peddle Up!
    Peddle Up! Posts: 2,040
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    @Peddle Up! - did you actually get a bike fit? If not, how did you set the right cleat angle and what cleats do you use?

    I have very flat feet and this is the cause of my "toe out" on one side. I have had a full fit, but this only confirmed my solution which was to fit extenders to prevent my heel bashing against the crank. I could get a clearance fit by adjusting my cleats (SPD SL) but while this was OK for rides up to 25 miles, any longer routes would leave me with knee pain the next morning.

    After fitting the extenders, I adjusted the cleats to give me a good cycling position, then tweaked them on subsequent rides. During the dynamic bike fit we looked at the effect of further changes, but I had "hit the spot" with my experimentation.

    My extenders came from Highpath Engineering (http://www.highpath.net/index.html) and are good quality stainless steel.

    Bike fit was undertaken by Mike at Bike Dynamics (http://bikedynamics.co.uk/). Strong reccomendation.
    Purveyor of "up" :)
  • alistaird
    alistaird Posts: 290
    Peddle Up! wrote:
    My extenders came from Highpath Engineering (http://www.highpath.net/index.html) and are good quality stainless steel.

    I was going to suggest these people, I've got some of their chainrings (not fitted them yet) but they look great bits of engineering.
    Alistair


    Best Weather Bike - Time ZXRS
    Summer Road Bike - Pinarello FPX Dogma
    Winter Road Bike- Colnago E1
    Being Dismantled - Sintesi Blade
    Mountain Bike - Sold them all....
  • alithinar
    alithinar Posts: 2
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Been increasing the distance ridden on my new road bike and now touching on the 40mile+ distances but I have a problem. My right foot naturally turns out about 10-15degrees and after 30 miles or so my right knee is aching as the SL cleats are holding the foot parallel to the bike. I have tried adjusting the cleat on the base of the shoe but it makes little difference as i can't get enought 'turn', although the heel now catches the rear stay occasionally because I can't bring the shoe far enough forward.

    Apart from re-engineering my leg (which seems a tad drastic) what can I do to correct this?... I have read about floating cleats but that wouldnt stop my heel hitting the stay.

    Can you get something that extends the pedal outwards by 25mm or so - a washer wouldn't do it, it would need to be something that screws between the pedal and the crank. I had a look but a Google search turned up nothing suitable sourced in the UK

    btw, I found these guys http://bikedynamics.co.uk/ that explain the issue on their website perfectly... but dont help with the bits to address it...

    Anyone?


    Hi OptimisticBiker, I signed up to this forum just now to ask how your setup worked out. I have a similarly severely toed-out right foot and just bought kneesavers online. It looks like you were able to continue using Shimano SL road pedals? How? I turned my cleat all the way out but I can only get about 9 degrees of rotation from that. Im thinking of getting SpeedPlays?
  • Peddle Up!
    Peddle Up! Posts: 2,040
    alithinar wrote:
    Hi OptimisticBiker, I signed up to this forum just now to ask how your setup worked out. I have a similarly severely toed-out right foot and just bought kneesavers online. It looks like you were able to continue using Shimano SL road pedals? How? I turned my cleat all the way out but I can only get about 9 degrees of rotation from that. Im thinking of getting SpeedPlays?

    You might be interested in my experience of SpeedPlay pedals. Summary of posts here.
    Purveyor of "up" :)
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    I'm going to need these after my leg break. My left foot is now quite turned out.

    I use SPD cleats so can get quite a lot of rotation and have a reasonable amount of float too.

    Those extenders look perfect!
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    alithinar wrote:
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Been increasing the distance ridden on my new road bike and now touching on the 40mile+ distances but I have a problem. My right foot naturally turns out about 10-15degrees and after 30 miles or so my right knee is aching as the SL cleats are holding the foot parallel to the bike. I have tried adjusting the cleat on the base of the shoe but it makes little difference as i can't get enought 'turn', although the heel now catches the rear stay occasionally because I can't bring the shoe far enough forward.

    Apart from re-engineering my leg (which seems a tad drastic) what can I do to correct this?... I have read about floating cleats but that wouldnt stop my heel hitting the stay.

    Can you get something that extends the pedal outwards by 25mm or so - a washer wouldn't do it, it would need to be something that screws between the pedal and the crank. I had a look but a Google search turned up nothing suitable sourced in the UK

    btw, I found these guys http://bikedynamics.co.uk/ that explain the issue on their website perfectly... but dont help with the bits to address it...

    Anyone?


    Hi OptimisticBiker, I signed up to this forum just now to ask how your setup worked out. I have a similarly severely toed-out right foot and just bought kneesavers online. It looks like you were able to continue using Shimano SL road pedals? How? I turned my cleat all the way out but I can only get about 9 degrees of rotation from that. Im thinking of getting SpeedPlays?

    Try some different cleat bolts with a smaller head, these should allow you to rotate the cleat further round.
  • cattytown
    cattytown Posts: 647
    I am similar - right foot points out. Speedplay zero, I was using extenders but have dropped them as I don't seem to be needing as much width.

    Paul.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • alithinar
    alithinar Posts: 2
    Peddle Up! wrote:
    alithinar wrote:
    Hi OptimisticBiker, I signed up to this forum just now to ask how your setup worked out. I have a similarly severely toed-out right foot and just bought kneesavers online. It looks like you were able to continue using Shimano SL road pedals? How? I turned my cleat all the way out but I can only get about 9 degrees of rotation from that. Im thinking of getting SpeedPlays?

    You might be interested in my experience of SpeedPlay pedals. Summary of posts here.

    interestingly, I could only get 7.5 degrees of rotation from the speedplay zeroes. I need at least 15.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Go retro.. back to track pedals and clips
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    alithinar wrote:
    Peddle Up! wrote:
    alithinar wrote:
    Hi OptimisticBiker, I signed up to this forum just now to ask how your setup worked out. I have a similarly severely toed-out right foot and just bought kneesavers online. It looks like you were able to continue using Shimano SL road pedals? How? I turned my cleat all the way out but I can only get about 9 degrees of rotation from that. Im thinking of getting SpeedPlays?

    You might be interested in my experience of SpeedPlay pedals. Summary of posts here.

    interestingly, I could only get 7.5 degrees of rotation from the speedplay zeroes. I need at least 15.
    Have a look at Speedplay X5 pedals, which have unrestricted float.
    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!

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