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Astana get 2015 licence.

ginsterdrzginsterdrz Posts: 117
edited December 2014 in Pro race
Wow! I didn't see that coming. No conditions. No restrictions.

Thought the UCI had changed. Sends out a very poor message and damages the image of cycling yet again.

Sad day.
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  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,159
    WTF????
    No way!
    Unbelievable.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,867
    Bull

    F**king

    censored

    !!!!

    That's been handled as badly by the UCI as bad as they handled the Armstrong saga
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,617
    It's a legal decision made by lawyers. There simply isn't the grounds to deny the licence on the factual evidence presented by the decision date. The WADA code restricts what governing bodies can do (sanctions for individuals not teams).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,436
    Ginsterdrz wrote:
    Wow! I didn't see that coming. No conditions. No restrictions.

    Apart from the conditions the UCI have very clearly placed on the team in their press release? :roll:

    The last regime played fast and loose with their own rules and look at the mess that got them in. It might not please the angry mob, but they've followed the rules as they are laid down and, for the sport, that's a good thing.

    Whether Astana retain their license is another matter.
  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,159
    Booooo, it's a load of nonsense, boo!!
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    The UCI have followed the rules. You can't not follow the rules to punish someone else for not following the rules.

    Anyway, there are conditions. They're on a probation, will be monitored and audited.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Read this, explains it very well. Let's hope Astana are subject to huge testing all year.

    http://inrng.com/2014/12/astana-uci-licence/
  • As if UCI will ban one of their top teams.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    According to the uci release, thorough auditing of all processes, examination of the unseen Padua evidence and one more strike = out
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    Joelsim wrote:
    Read this, explains it very well. Let's hope Astana are subject to huge testing all year.

    http://inrng.com/2014/12/astana-uci-licence/

    agreed, reading that made me wonder actually why anyone should be shocked at the decision at all, not from a UCI have just rolled over pov, I mean from a shouldnt we have been able to predict that very outcome way in advance anyway, it seems like people are more disappointed because most of the cycling press/commentators had already basically kicked Astana out, so for the decision to go the other way looks like the UCI have acquiesed, even though actually theyve just followed their own published rules.
  • iainf72 wrote:
    The UCI have followed the rules. You can't not follow the rules to punish someone else for not following the rules.

    But it is the UCI who write the rules, and one might have thought that if Cookson was serious about cleaning up the sport, then by now he would have overseen the rule changes needed to prevent teams like Astana from having WorldTour licences...

    As they say, Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • Ginsterdrz wrote:
    Wow! I didn't see that coming. No conditions. No restrictions.


    Apart from the conditions the UCI have very clearly placed on the team in their press release? :roll:

    The last regime played fast and loose with their own rules and look at the mess that got them in. It might not please the angry mob, but they've followed the rules as they are laid down and, for the sport, that's a good thing.

    Whether Astana retain their license is another matter.

    Ha ha ha. Just read the press release with a load of wishy washy, none specific language which is a joke!

    As I said-no restrictions, no conditions.

    But your sort of on probation (?) and you'll get refered to a commission if you're naughty again (sweepstake anyone?).

    And apparently Astana passed the ethical test for their licence!!!!

    Total joke.
  • fleshtuxedofleshtuxedo Posts: 1,825
    These are the conditions:

    "In light of the above, the Licence Commission has subordinated the 2015 registration team to the two following conditions:

    1. That the Astana Pro Team is audited by the Institute of Sport Sciences of the University of Lausanne (ISSUL) (2), an independent body recognised for its expertise in this field. The ISSUL will look into the circumstances of the doping cases at stake to determine whether and to what extent the team and or/its management is responsible of the recent events. Furthermore, it will assess the team’s internal structures, culture and management systems to understand whether these are adequate to ensure that the highest ethical standards are upheld. It will release its report early February 2015. The audit will be paid for by the Team.
    2. That the Astana Pro Team adheres from 2015 to the internal operational requirements (3), which will be compulsory for all UCI World Teams from 2017 as part of the reform of men’s professional road cycling. Astana Pro Team will join a group of eight teams that have volunteered to implement."

    Doesn't seem that tough to me. Also it is NOT "one more strike and you're out", it is "one more strike and the license commission reviews you".
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Don't forget that strike could be Padua.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,436

    But it is the UCI who write the rules, and one might have thought that if Cookson was serious about cleaning up the sport, then by now he would have overseen the rule changes needed to prevent teams like Astana from having WorldTour licences...

    As they say, Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    The UCI are trying to radically change the professional side of the sport, to try and make it more sustainable. Much focus has been on the calendar changes but there are, I believe, significant changes to the rules governing teams. So in the short term they are continuing with the rules they have, but that's a temporary measure.

    But really, the UCI is a governing body for a minor sport, not some ethical martyr for the ills of professional sport.
  • mm1mm1 Posts: 1,101
    andyp wrote:

    But really, the UCI is a governing body for a minor sport, not some ethical martyr for the ills of professional sport.

    And it is, in effect, a confederation of all of the national cycling federations, all of which are relatively small but also have their own interests to protect, which makes changing anything slow and painful. Cookson is a former local government officer, so don't expect him to do anything other than follow the rules. His margin of victory in the UCI election was also very narrow, which also will constrain the pace at which he can risk driving through change. Cookson only won because Pat pissed off some of the Asian and African reps whose votes he thought were in the bag.

    The changes that Cookson wants will happen, but there is a lot of pain to go through first.
  • Not a surprise but as usual UCI have no balls accept when they are spending tons of money and time on prosecuting minors.

    Lets hope they make Astana aware early that they will not get a licence in 2016 unless A B and C changes.

    Let's also hope that Nibali and the majority of the Italian contingent decamp in 2016.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,618

    Doesn't seem that tough to me. Also it is NOT "one more strike and you're out", it is "one more strike and the license commission reviews you".

    Yes but why paint yourself into a corner.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • Europcar also had their licence refused due to having insufficient funding.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • fleshtuxedofleshtuxedo Posts: 1,825

    Doesn't seem that tough to me. Also it is NOT "one more strike and you're out", it is "one more strike and the license commission reviews you".

    Yes but why paint yourself into a corner.

    I wasn't saying they should, just clarifying something that was being a bit misrepresented in an earlier post
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    Europcar also had their licence refused due to having insufficient funding.

    Yer ... read that ... not good news ... :(
    Loved seeing the Europcar breakaways ... :)
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,692
    Apparently they will almost certainly get wild cards for the tour, and actually could end up saving them a lot of money entering pointless races.
  • andyp wrote:
    The UCI are trying to radically change the professional side of the sport, to try and make it more sustainable.

    Much like they did when they decided that it was a good idea to protect Armstrong then, in the interests of furthering the 'globalisation' of the sport,
    andyp wrote:
    the UCI is a governing body for a minor sport, not some ethical martyr for the ills of professional sport.

    No one said that they were. However, this doesn't mean that they shouldn't make a serious attempt to clean up pro cycling, irrespective of whatever other sports might or might not do...
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,436
    Europcar have only had a WT licence for this past season, and it was something of a surprise that they stepped up, given their focus on the French calendar.

    Dropping back to Pro-Continental level won't do them any harm and they'll still get to ride all the major races, with maybe the exception of the Giro.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    coriordan wrote:
    Apparently they will almost certainly get wild cards for the tour, and actually could end up saving them a lot of money entering pointless races.

    Good ! :)
  • mm1 wrote:
    it is, in effect, a confederation of all of the national cycling federations, all of which are relatively small but also have their own interests to protect, which makes changing anything slow and painful.

    From what I have seen the UCI can almost instantly force through just about any rule that they please, even to the point of writing them as riders are warming up for their event. Just think back to the Obree fiasco, the imposition of whole rafts of ill-thought out technical regulations and so forth.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,617
    edited December 2014
    From what I have seen the UCI can almost instantly force through just about any rule that they please, even to the point of writing them as riders are warming up for their event. Just think back to the Obree fiasco, the imposition of whole rafts of ill-thought out technical regulations and so forth.
    You might want to check your calendar. It's not 1994 any more.

    You can't say that it's wrong for them to change some laws, but right to change others, according to your own personal taste.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,617
    coriordan wrote:
    Apparently they will almost certainly get wild cards for the tour, and actually could end up saving them a lot of money entering pointless races.
    Frankly, in their financial prediciment, it's the best thing for them. They'll get a extra wildcard slot that has opened up in more or less ever race they want to attend and they won't have to spread themselves so thinly. They were more successful as a Pro Conti team.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp wrote:
    Europcar have only had a WT licence for this past season, and it was something of a surprise that they stepped up, given their focus on the French calendar.

    Dropping back to Pro-Continental level won't do them any harm and they'll still get to ride all the major races, with maybe the exception of the Giro.

    Quite possible Rolland earned them that gig as well.
    One extra WC this time.
    Seems like a possible win win situation for the Car, doesn't it?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95 wrote:
    It's not 1994 any more.

    The UCI acts as thought it is ...when it suits them.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
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