So UKIP have got an MP...

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Comments

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    symo wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Having said all this, this morning I got a decent tax refund from my good friends at HMRC.. happy days! and yes I am keeping every cent!

    I take it, that in order to get this, you didn't take one of the heads of HMRC for dinner to 'agree' how much tax you should pay, nor did you employ some lobbying group to schmooze politicians to change legislation for your benefit.

    This is the difference.
    Do you really think that heads of HMRC are taken out to dinner to agree some cosy pact? There is negotiation sure - over the technical merits and strength of psotions in complex cases. However HMRC are not our mates and are charged with maximising tax revenue. However sometimes they are smart enough to know when a compromise is in their best interests.

    As for the lobbying - well there are enough poorly informed people lobbying for ever increasing levels of tax so it's only fair that those who fund the rest of the country have their case put forward. In my experience such lobbying is rarely effective - it's more a realisation along the lines of geese and golden eggs. There is enough mobile capital to make tax something that many countries quite sensibly compete amongst each other on to attract investment as in the long run, that benefits the countries involved. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • RideOnTime
    RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/mike-read-apologises-unreservedly-for-ukip-calypso-and-withdraws-it-from-sale-9810106.html

    :shock: :( :shock:
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    mamba80 wrote:
    what I don't understand with ukip is that they are a more extreme version of the Tories and we can see with their policies that they ll never do anything for the sort of guy from Clacton, so god alone knows what he thinks ukip will do!
    9% pay rise for MPs no pay rise for nhs workers, a bedroom tax but not a mansion tax, increases in the upper tax threshold but working benefits freeze, increases in Pension for ALL despite the fact that many many pensioners are loaded esp those who in the public sector who retired on final salary and now inheritance tax threshold increases, a tax that only effect 1 in 20, mainly in the SE and amongst typical tory voters - what ever happened to "one nation conservatism?"

    Perhaps that Lion of the Left, Tony Benn and his leftie son Hilary could explain?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... t-too.html
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Perhaps that Lion of the Left, Tony Benn and his leftie son Hilary could explain?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... t-too.html
    Good spot Bally, I love a good bit of leftie hypocrisy. Especially when it comes to tax :)

    "Do as I say, don't do as I do..."
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    These lefties are at it everywhere:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/cahuzac-tax-evasion-scandal-threatens-french-government-a-892547.html

    "For two decades, the self-proclaimed spearhead in the fight against tax evasion dodged taxes by having his money in undeclared accounts in Switzerland and Singapore."

    Formerly part of a Government that prides itself on taxing companies anyone remotely successful to within a centimetre of their lives. Simply staggering hypocrisy.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    These lefties are at it everywhere:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/cahuzac-tax-evasion-scandal-threatens-french-government-a-892547.html

    "For two decades, the self-proclaimed spearhead in the fight against tax evasion dodged taxes by having his money in undeclared accounts in Switzerland and Singapore."

    Formerly part of a Government that prides itself on taxing companies anyone remotely successful to within a centimetre of their lives. Simply staggering hypocrisy.

    Either that or he has intimate experience of how easy it is to dodge a lot of tax ;).

    And anyway, the assumption is that it's a scandal that he does it, so presumably we're all agreed it's not a good thing to have tax dodging, so no harm in trying to shut it down.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,938
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Either that or he has intimate experience of how easy it is to dodge a lot of tax ;).

    And anyway, the assumption is that it's a scandal that he does it, so presumably we're all agreed it's not a good thing to have tax dodging, so no harm in trying to shut it down.
    No.
    It is the hypocrisy that is a scandal.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    Either that or he has intimate experience of how easy it is to dodge a lot of tax ;).

    And anyway, the assumption is that it's a scandal that he does it, so presumably we're all agreed it's not a good thing to have tax dodging, so no harm in trying to shut it down.
    No.
    It is the hypocrisy that is a scandal.
    ^^^
    This.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Perhaps that Lion of the Left, Tony Benn and his leftie son Hilary could explain?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... t-too.html
    Good spot Bally, I love a good bit of leftie hypocrisy. Especially when it comes to tax :)

    "Do as I say, don't do as I do..."

    even Hmrc say its good tax planning and doesn't fall under any aggressive tax avoidance schemes but will you be equally hard on, say Cameron and his criticism of Alan Carr, when we inevitably find out that DC is equally ept?

    DC also claimed DLA for his son, you know the one he keeps mentioning for any positive PR, this despite him and Sam being very wealthy indeed, benefit cheat maybe not? but did he really need that £85 per week ? only to abolish this benefit, once in power, which is also possibly the fate of the unit that treated his son and his government which closed down 36 remploy factories that would have given employment to the disabled, people that he says he champions ......right wing hypocrisy of the first order - as you quote "do as I say....."
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    Tut tut, naughty Guardian :)

    "For all 'holier than thou' evangelical Maoist reputation and rants from the Guardian's almost exclusively Trotskyite editorial team about fairness and equality and the sheer evil of slebs such as Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow whose accountants recommended tax avoidance schemes that were perfectly legal at the time, Guardian Media has for years exploited tax avoidance (the Great Satan of tax avoidance according to lefties)loopholes involving the use of shell companies registered in the Cayman Islands in recent years. This particular gross hypocrisy was reported as long ago as 2009 on Guido Fawkes blog after Guido, stung by a particularly disingenuous polemic from uber hypocrites Polly (three mansions) Toynbee. The piece reveals how Guardian Media Group the company avoided stamp duty due to a complicated arrangement in the Cayman Islands.

    By employing expert tax lawyers Guardian Media Group have ensured that this year it paid just £1.4 million in corporation tax. This was in spite of the huge profit on the Auto - trader sale which the company insists were not liable for tax under the Substantial Shareholdings Exemption rule (and because the money was quietly shifted to a tax haven - a practice The Guardian publicly claims to abhor.

    In 2013 Andrew Miller admitted that the Guardian Newspaper had no future and was likely to go fully online within the next few years. And for engineering that disaster he gets paid £2.2 million."
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tut tut, naughty Guardian :)

    "For all 'holier than thou' evangelical Maoist reputation and rants from the Guardian's almost exclusively Trotskyite editorial team


    Eh?

    Think you need to look up what Maoism and Trotskyism is.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Perhaps that Lion of the Left, Tony Benn and his leftie son Hilary could explain?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... t-too.html
    Good spot Bally, I love a good bit of leftie hypocrisy. Especially when it comes to tax :)

    "Do as I say, don't do as I do..."

    even Hmrc say its good tax planning and doesn't fall under any aggressive tax avoidance schemes but will you be equally hard on, say Cameron and his criticism of Alan Carr, when we inevitably find out that DC is equally ept?
    Unlike our French friend who was doing tax evasion (illegal), Tony Benn was of course doing nothing illegal or even aggressive from a tax persepctive. But as holier-than-thou lefties always preach that the well off should pay 'their fair share' it is a more than a tad hypocritical for the clearly wealthy TB to reduce his tax bill when he should have been paying tax for the greater good of society :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tut tut, naughty Guardian :)

    "For all 'holier than thou' evangelical Maoist reputation and rants from the Guardian's almost exclusively Trotskyite editorial team


    Eh?

    Think you need to look up what Maoism and Trotskyism is.
    I didn't write it - just quoting from an online source so go tell the author. But it got a bite - possible a touchy subject? :) Any comments on the allegations of tax dodging by the Guardian?

    http://greenteeth.blog.co.uk/2014/07/12/crooks-and-liars-and-left-wing-hypocrites-18870848/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Perhaps that Lion of the Left, Tony Benn and his leftie son Hilary could explain?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... t-too.html
    Good spot Bally, I love a good bit of leftie hypocrisy. Especially when it comes to tax :)

    "Do as I say, don't do as I do..."

    even Hmrc say its good tax planning and doesn't fall under any aggressive tax avoidance schemes but will you be equally hard on, say Cameron and his criticism of Alan Carr, when we inevitably find out that DC is equally ept?

    DC also claimed DLA for his son, you know the one he keeps mentioning for any positive PR, this despite him and Sam being very wealthy indeed, benefit cheat maybe not? but did he really need that £85 per week ? only to abolish this benefit, once in power, which is also possibly the fate of the unit that treated his son and his government which closed down 36 remploy factories that would have given employment to the disabled, people that he says he champions ......right wing hypocrisy of the first order - as you quote "do as I say....."


    So are you making the case that benefits for the disabled should be means tested or not?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    I think you're a little sensitive to the whole tax stuff Stevo.

    The guardian spends 10, if not 20 times the amount of time and words on Feminism and gov't spending cuts (for example) than it does on the rich few who have the means and economies of scale to exploit tax loops.

    Broadly speaking my main issue with tax loops is that they're not accessible to the poor, who could probably do with them more than the well off.

    When you're on 18k it's not much use being able to siphon money off to Singers & Geneva.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Tut tut, naughty Guardian :)

    "For all 'holier than thou' evangelical Maoist reputation and rants from the Guardian's almost exclusively Trotskyite editorial team


    Eh?

    Think you need to look up what Maoism and Trotskyism is.
    I didn't write it - just quoting from an online source so go tell the author. But it got a bite - possible a touchy subject? :) Any comments on the allegations of tax dodging by the Guardian?

    http://greenteeth.blog.co.uk/2014/07/12/crooks-and-liars-and-left-wing-hypocrites-18870848/

    :? christ, you're more extreme than I first thought.

    tumblr_lnv6ujTP1v1qgy8c3.gif
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Comments on tax dodging on the Guardian?

    My company does it.

    Most do. At least, those who have the economies of scale to do so. Small companies, that probably need tax breaks more than the big companies, aren't able to.

    Problem isn't that, unsurprisingly, people respond to incentives and go to the limits of the rules.

    Problem is the rules are rubbish.

    I don't go to the tax man and give him more tax than I owe him. Doesn't mean I won't vote for a party that would probably increase the tax on me.

    When I play rugby, even though I prefer football, I'll still pick up the ball with my hands.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,801
    Extreme - for quoting a source that alleges the Guardian dodged tax? You seem to think I wrote it. Is anyone who even suggests that the 'Leftiad' could possibly engage in tax dodging an 'extremist'? :D Think you're being a bit sensitive...

    Agree, most companies do it - as you know it's something I have knowledge of. But given what the Guardian preaches, is there not just a little bit of hypocrisy there? :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,980
    Probably. Doesn't mean the argument is invalid however.

    Most doctors I know drink too much. Doesn't mean I won't listen to the when they tell me I'd be healthier if I drank less.
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,402
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So Farage has just done a deal with the Polish 'new right' party, whose leader is unapologetically racist, misogynist, and a holocaust denier.

    Korwin-Mikke has also called for the vote to be taken away from women, has claimed that the difference between rape and consensual sex is “very subtle” and said that Adolf Hitler was “probably not aware that Jews were being exterminated”.

    Way off topic but I watched Nuremburg (the Alec Bladwin) one last night and in a totally peerless performance by Brian Cox (not that one), Goering makes that point a number of times. If you ve not watched it it's well worth an illegal download or stream

    I'm fairly sure Awec Bawin's performance is the one that was parodied in Team America, but even that cant detract from the film as a whole
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    florerider wrote:
    So are you making the case that benefits for the disabled should be means tested or not?

    No I am not arguing that at all.
    Cameron took the time to fill in a lengthy form and that shows the measure of the man, he is an extremely wealthy individual, he cant help that but he then gets into power and sets about dismantling the very benefits he was happy to claim... no ATOS interrogation for his family, no loss of employment for him when his local Remploy factory shut down and the very unit that treated his son, is now threatened with closure.

    We can all trawl the net and find examples of right or left wing hypocrisy but I believe Cameron is the lowest of the low to bleat on about disability and his dead son, whilst at the same time seeking to save money from the most vulnerably in society.
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    I didn't think you were, more making the point that there is a slippery slope if the case is made that the wealthy should always be excluded from benefits. The point about hypocrisy is well made, a lot of us entangled with disability thought there was a new dawn with first Gordon Brown and then David Cameron, we have been sadly dissapointed.

    Anyone thinking it is easy for the disabled on benefits, I'll swap you £87 a week for a lifetime of 24 hour care and worry any day.

    You hit on a point not well understood though, middle class professionals do cope,with the forms and tests and visits but it is very difficult for (for want of a better phrase) the lesser educated.

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