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2014 RS Revelation custom tuning options?

Kai in the BordersKai in the Borders Posts: 66
edited January 2015 in MTB workshop & tech
As the subject title suggest, I'd like to know what options are available for custom tuning a 2014 Rockshox Revelation RL before I consider something like a Pike instead.

The fork is on my Kona Process 134DL and has 140mm travel. I usually run it at 25% sag and with fast-ish rebound at about 6 clicks from the rabbit! For what its worth, the shock is at about 30% and also fast rebound. I weigh in at about 80kg +/- without riding gear.

For much of the time, the fork is fine but of fast and rowdy stuff in particular it starts to lose composure. I've tried different sag and rebound settings but they are just worse and I prefer the fork propped up a bit for steeper terrain.

Is PUSH tuning available for 2014 forks or is there something else I should consider before calling the likes of TFT.
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  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    What compression damper and what adjustment? Losing composure like that suggests not enough or too much (by a bigger margin) damping. The compression can really help to keep the fork up and not diving through it's travel.
  • The damper is - Motion Control DNA with Dig valve and Rapid Recovery rebound
    No idea on the tune but will have a look at the fork to see if there's a sticker with this on.

    There's a compression dial at the top of the fork leg that has a few clicks from fully open to locked. I usually have it open or at one click for open and fast stuff and then maybe two clicks for slower steep trails.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Wrong approach to compression tuning, speed is irrelevant, you need the right damping for spring strength
    and rider weight, sounds like you are running next to no compression damping and that is almost certainly your issue. No point spending money until you learn to use what you have. By 'dig valve' I assume you mean floodgate, has that been set up?
  • OK, according to RS, the Dig Valve is -
    "RockShox has redesigned the rebound piston to accommodate the Dig Valve, which provides the optimal level of control for both low and high speed compression, carefully controlling the oil flow to provide the rider with the right amount of support and impact absorption. The piston redesign allows the use of Rapid Recovery, a rebound tune that allows the shock to recover faster between consecutive bumps, for greater traction and a more controlled ride."

    I'm unaware of any 'floodgate' settings as per older RS forks I've had. The only items to adjust are the air pressure(solo), rebound and compression dial at the top of the fork. My understanding is that this dial is low speed compression and therefore you run less damping for the fast and rocky stuff but dial it in for steep and slow stuff. At least that's what they tell you on the RS service pages of their website.

    Don't think I am missing any other adjustments available to me on this fork.
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    The RL doesnt have floodgate adjustment. I used to run about 3 or 4 clicks of compression damping at a little. Over your weight.

    I've now got the RCT3 variant and although I liked the RLs I fitted to my old bike the RCT3 is even better and the ability to alter the low speed compression is a huge improvement despite now only having the 3 settings for high speed.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    OK, my daughters Revs has the Floodgate, that is a current production part, from that description it sounds like the dig valve is performing the floodgate function to a certain extent.

    None the less, it sounds like not enough compression damping.
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    An option could be to source a 2015 air cap and 32mm bottomless token to enhance the tuning. My rct3 has the air cap and while looking for the tokens I came across a German site I believe selling the cap and tokens for 23 euros I believe. Would make them less linear.

    There may be some form of floodgate adjustment I missed though but the RL is the basic version of the fork.
  • Thanks. I was looking at the bottomless tokens thing on the RS service pages and wondering if that'd be worth considering.

    Also, I seem to remember folk upgrading dampers to the RCT3 on the older Revs. Wonder if that's still possible.

    In the meantime, I will experiment with greater fiddling of the compression dial. But I am not convinced it'll do enough to make the difference I am looking for.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    I have the same fork. I spoke to TF Tuned about tuning and there's very little that can be done. You can upgrade to the RCT3 damper but thats not all that great.
    Fitting volume spacers will not achieve what you want, you need more compression damping.
  • I have the same fork. I spoke to TF Tuned about tuning and there's very little that can be done. You can upgrade to the RCT3 damper but thats not all that great.
    Fitting volume spacers will not achieve what you want, you need more compression damping.
    I spoke to them last week too. They said at best they could add a new compression damper to allow me to adjust it and if it already has the dual flow rebound damper then theu could do something with a high speed shim stack. Anyway, all of that could come out at close to £350 with no real guarantees of how much better it'd be.

    I'd be better off buying a 2015 Revelation RCT3 for just over £400 and selling the RL to offset the cost a bit. Or the same with a Pike.

    Interestingly, I asked about shock options too and they weren't very enthusiastic about the Cane Creek DB inline, RS DebonAir or indeed any RS shocks. The recommendation was to go for a Fox Float Factory CTD with a PUSH tune (or even to consider getting an older RP23 and send it to them for PUSH tuning).
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    You have some compression adjustment you aren't using, why not try that first, you can also change the oil to a heavier weight to increase it a bit further. We changed my daughters compression damper in her revs to a Motion control DNA (with adjustable floodgate opening) for £75 from TFtuned.
  • The Rookie wrote:
    You have some compression adjustment you aren't using, why not try that first, you can also change the oil to a heavier weight to increase it a bit further. We changed my daughters compression damper in her revs to a Motion control DNA (with adjustable floodgate opening) for £75 from TFtuned.
    I tried the compression/lock out dial on a few different settings at the weekend and the fork remains unstable on fast, choppy descents in particular.
    If it's relatively smooth or there ar less frequent bumps or hits then it's fine, but when it gets rowdy then it's a case of trying to hang on.
    As I said, I spoke to TF Tuned about it last week and they also suggested a new compression damper to offer me greater adjustment. But the lad I spoke with didn't sound that convincing.

    What's the downside to using a heavier oil then? It's 15wt as standard I think?!
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    No downside, it just increases the damping (in both directions) for the same setting.

    Maybe your rebound is wrong (too slow and it jacks down and increases spring weight, too fast and it comes up out of control feeding that into your hands and arms).
  • Read the MBUK review of the bike in Bikeradar. They had similar issues, but blamed the head angle rather than the fork

    FWIW, I have the same fork on my 456 and love it.
  • Read the MBUK review of the bike in Bikeradar. They had similar issues, but blamed the head angle rather than the fork

    FWIW, I have the same fork on my 456 and love it.
    Won't be the head angle in my case as I have a Works Components headset that's taken it down to 67 degrees. Although I can't see how that'd affect suspension on the kind of trails I'm having issues on. It was absolutely fine on steep and techy stuff.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Can you explain this loss of composure a little further? Bottoming out? Not rebound enough? Feels harsh?
  • supersonic wrote:
    Can you explain this loss of composure a little further? Bottoming out? Not rebound enough? Feels harsh?
    Harsh and juddery.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Try 30% sag, and speed the rebound up a little. If it feels a little wallowy, meter in the compression damping.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Put a cable tie round a stanchion and see how much of the travel you are suing, if you aren't 'just' using it all, then you need to run more sag, start with SS's 30% though.
  • supersonic wrote:
    Try 30% sag, and speed the rebound up a little. If it feels a little wallowy, meter in the compression damping.
    I will give that a go on Saturday, but I am concerned about the fork sitting too far into the travel, making the head steeper and then increased diving when I am on steep ground. Although in that case, I'll try even more compression.
    The fork is already just 6 clicks from fully fast (open) rebound too.

    I have an RS rubber ring on the the stanchion anyway, so I can see the travel being used. I don't think that I ever use full travel!
  • If you havent used full travel, then you arent running enough sag.

    Deffo sounds like a setup issue!
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I do think that they are run too hard for your riding. The comp damping is subtle, but does help prop the front up. More sag means less force to rebound the fork, hence need to run faster. Only worry if you run out of clicks ;-)
  • supersonic wrote:
    I do think that they are run too hard for your riding. The comp damping is subtle, but does help prop the front up. More sag means less force to rebound the fork, hence need to run faster. Only worry if you run out of clicks ;-)
    Thanks. I'll see how I get on.
  • Well it seems to be an improvement. I was out a couple of times on the bike - trail centre and then some slippery natural stuff. But I need to experiment a bit more.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
  • supersonic wrote:
    Try 35% sag
    I may do so.
    The concern I have is the amount that this steepens the head angle by. And also, the fork will start to sag considerably without me even sitting on the bike, so I'm effectively losing travel.
    It may work out being more comfy over certain trails, but on other stuff I prefer the more propped up feel that I get when I've been running the sag at 25%.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    If you are bottoming out only then are you losing travel. And you can ramp it up anyway.

    140mm at 25% sag = 112mm ride height.

    140mm at 35% sag = 91mm ride height,

    21mm difference, less than 1 degree. The compression damping should prop it up.
  • supersonic wrote:
    If you are bottoming out only then are you losing travel. And you can ramp it up anyway.

    140mm at 25% sag = 112mm ride height.

    140mm at 35% sag = 91mm ride height,

    21mm difference, less than 1 degree. The compression damping should prop it up.

    That's a useful way of looking at it. Although I think the situation is even better as your maths may be incorrect:

    140mm at 25% sag = 105mm ride height

    So the difference should be 14mm!

    Cheers. I'll give it a go.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Ha, yes, you are right - did that first one in my head, and failed miserably! I did 20% lol.
  • russyhrussyh Posts: 1,375
    Be interested if there was any update with how the tweaking was going? I have the same fork and the same issue. Really harsh on fast descent. I am going to try and run at 35% Sag.
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