UK Motorway Roadworks

pblakeney · October 2014

I went though so many "roadworks* that I lost count.
Miles upon miles of zero work being done.
Plus, the M40 had a 30 section where the traffic was light, weather and visibility was good, and there were no roadworks or cones??????

Surely shift patterns could be increased?
The only increase in cost would be overtime rates as the man hours would remain the same. They could even be reduced by cutting down set up time.
We are also continuously being told how much traffic jams cost the economy so surely that would also negate the overtime costs.

I am probably being too simplistic but I have never seen such empty roadworks abroad and no roadworks/repairs should take months which I have seen at a single junction.

VTech · October 2014

PBlakeney wrote:

I went though so many "roadworks* that I lost count.
Miles upon miles of zero work being done.
Plus, the M40 had a 30 section where the traffic was light, weather and visibility was good, and there were no roadworks or cones??????

Surely shift patterns could be increased?
The only increase in cost would be overtime rates as the man hours would remain the same. They could even be reduced by cutting down set up time.
We are also continuously being told how much traffic jams cost the economy so surely that would also negate the overtime costs.

I am probably being too simplistic but I have never seen such empty roadworks abroad and no roadworks/repairs should take months which I have seen at a single junction.

For a man with sense.
Problem is, common sense doesn't come into it. These games (yes games) are about getting as much money for a job and having costs as low as possible. Now most will say this is the same for all business which it is but thats the entire problem. Selling off contracts with little or no penalty scheme is ridiculous. You only have two options with this type of work, sanctions on contracts or in-house control.

Neither will happen so we end up with what we have now, an incredibly poor infrastructure.

Pross · October 2014

Without knowing the site there could be any number of reasons but I seriously doubt there are roadworks where people aren't working when they could be. It maybe work is undertaken outside peak hours due to additional lanes needing to be closed whilst work is in progress and then the lane closures are restricted to the minimum necessary for safty outside work hours (probably the most common cause of this issue). Contractors have to 'rent' lanes so if they have them closed off for longer than their contract stated they have to pay a penalty which can be massive depending on the route. Conversely they might get bonus payments for re-opening early so they don't just do it for the sake of it or to annoy people. I travel 30k miles a year so get as wound up as anyone by roadworks but it is very rare that they aren't required. As for speed limits, if you've ever worked on a live motorway you'll soon appreciate them being in place - I saw a road worker get his leg broken by a cone sent flying by a lorry and that was at relatively low speed. Not sure why there one in your particular example, possibly just not cancelled after an earlier incident.

People moan about the state of roads and then moan about the hassle caused by things being put right. I guess that's the British way!

VTech · October 2014

I remember a case on the wales/england boarder over the bridge where they deliberately kept the speed cameras on as it was a revenue maker even though no work was ongoing for around a year.
This was a long time ago but I'm not of the belief that roadwork signs exist only where roadworks are being carried out. The M5 had the same spot for 6 months without me ever viewing a worker.

pblakeney · October 2014

My experience that kicked this thread off was -

1. Various sections on the M6 between Manchester and Stafford on a Friday afternoon.
2. Various sections on the M6 and M5 between Stafford and Bristol on a Saturday morning.
3. Various sections on the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester on a Sunday morning into afternoon.

I never saw any work being done at all and any workers were in parked vehicles.

No doubt the defence will be weekend working but that does not apply to Friday, nor appear to apply abroad.

The M6 toll road was lovely though!

I know that some States in America construction firms bid to construct roads. They are held to their bid price, are hit by penalties for any delays and have to guarantee the surface for up to 20 years with any repairs coming out of their pockets.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pavement/warranty/backgrnd.cfm
Ironically based on a European model.

nathancom · October 2014

PBlakeney wrote:

My experience that kicked this thread off was -

1. Various sections on the M6 between Manchester and Stafford on a Friday afternoon.
2. Various sections on the M6 and M5 between Stafford and Bristol on a Saturday morning.
3. Various sections on the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester on a Sunday morning into afternoon.

I never saw any work being done at all and any workers were in parked vehicles.

No doubt the defence will be weekend working but that does not apply to Friday, nor appear to apply abroad.

The M6 toll road was lovely though!

I know that some States in America construction firms bid to construct roads. They are held to their bid price, are hit by penalties for any delays and have to guarantee the surface for up to 20 years with any repairs coming out of their pockets.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pavement/warranty/backgrnd.cfm
Ironically based on a European model.

Aren't they installing smart motorways all along the M1 and M6? I doubt they can be at every point of the motorway at once. Don't they also generally clock off earlier on Fridays?

pblakeney · October 2014

nathancom wrote:

Aren't they installing smart motorways all along the M1 and M6? I doubt they can be at every point of the motorway at once. Don't they also generally clock off earlier on Fridays?

Why cone a stretch off if you are not going to be working on it?
Once coned off, there should be work done.
13:00 is too early to clock off on a major infrastructure work, especially with rush hour approaching. Why not finish the job?
Off course, beating the rush hour is probably the reason for knocking off early. Especially with all these roadworks.....

nathancom · October 2014

PBlakeney wrote:

nathancom wrote:

Aren't they installing smart motorways all along the M1 and M6? I doubt they can be at every point of the motorway at once. Don't they also generally clock off earlier on Fridays?

Why cone a stretch off if you are not going to be working on it?
Once coned off, there should be work done.
13:00 is too early to clock off on a major infrastructure work, especially with rush hour approaching. Why not finish the job?
Off course, beating the rush hour is probably the reason for knocking off early. Especially with all these roadworks.....

1pm would be a pretty ridiculous knocking off time but it wouldn't surprise me...

Pross · October 2014

VTech wrote:

I remember a case on the wales/england boarder over the bridge where they deliberately kept the speed cameras on as it was a revenue maker even though no work was ongoing for around a year.
This was a long time ago but I'm not of the belief that roadwork signs exist only where roadworks are being carried out. The M5 had the same spot for 6 months without me ever viewing a worker.

I drive that stretch every day. The reality is that they had the cameras there as a temporary measure whilst all the necessary funding and orders were being put in place to have a variable speed limit introduced. Whilst this was ongoing they had the average speed cameras and a permanent 50mph speed limit in place. It certainly wasn't a revnue maker as the person running the scheme told me most of the cameras didn't even function. It worked though. Anecdotally there were far less crashes on that stretch during the time that scheme was in place.

Sirius631 · October 2014

If it's anything like my mother's hip replacement operations, they wouldn't want to complete roadworks too soon or the new road surface will start wearing out again.

Ben6899 · October 2014

PBlakeney wrote:

nathancom wrote:

Aren't they installing smart motorways all along the M1 and M6? I doubt they can be at every point of the motorway at once. Don't they also generally clock off earlier on Fridays?

Why cone a stretch off if you are not going to be working on it?
Once coned off, there should be work done.
13:00 is too early to clock off on a major infrastructure work, especially with rush hour approaching. Why not finish the job?
Off course, beating the rush hour is probably the reason for knocking off early. Especially with all these roadworks.....

A whole stretch will be coned and then work will happen sporadically at different locations, not necessarily in a linear fashion along the road.

Taking up cones and putting them down is dangerous. No other word for it. So do each activity as little as possible.

pblakeney · October 2014

Ben6899 wrote:

A whole stretch will be coned and then work will happen sporadically at different locations, not necessarily in a linear fashion along the road.

Taking up cones and putting them down is dangerous. No other word for it. So do each activity as little as possible.

No work was being done in any section of the road. 0% is not sporadic.
I dare say at some specific location somewhere along the coned route some work was being done at some point in time during the working week but I did not see evidence of enough work being done to warrant the amount of road coned off.
As I said in an earlier post, if I have ever seen areas coned off abroad then the work being done is obvious and in motion.

I agree with your second point but coning off an area for a month to complete 48 hours work does not make it any safer.

Ben6899 · October 2014

PBlakeney wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

A whole stretch will be coned and then work will happen sporadically at different locations, not necessarily in a linear fashion along the road.

Taking up cones and putting them down is dangerous. No other word for it. So do each activity as little as possible.

No work was being done in any section of the road. 0% is not sporadic.
I dare say at some specific location somewhere along the coned route some work was being done at some point in time during the working week but I did not see evidence of enough work being done to warrant the amount of road coned off.
As I said in an earlier post, if I have ever seen areas coned off abroad then the work being done is obvious and in motion.

I agree with your second point but coning off an area for a month to complete 48 hours work does not make it any safer.

Some work will have been happening, somewhere and at sometime on that day. Failing that, the next day, as Pross points out; cones aren't left for a month for the sake of it.

You'll just have to trust that what I wrote is correct, despite how it may have looked to - apologies - the layman. I worked in motorway construction and maintenance for many years.

UK Motorway Roadworks

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