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Replacing my BB30 with HT2 using an adaptor.

plodder73plodder73 Posts: 318
edited August 2014 in Workshop
Hope this is not a stupid question. Having had enough of the creaking I am going to buy an adaptor, either FSA or Praxisworks, and a new chainset.

This will effectively give me a wider crank as the bearings will no longer sit inside the frame. How does this affect the chain line and the front derailleur? Are Shimano chain sets the same width as my FSA or narrower, if the same I can see it as an issue. Then again I know its been done many miles before so presumably its not an issue.

Do I need a press to put in the Praxis works or does it just slot in then expand once screwed together? Many thanks in advance.

Posts

  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    replaced a fsa bb30 crank with an ultegra, using wheels manufacturing plastic adaptors - frame was a CAAD 10.
    any differences were tiny, the chain rings and crank arms on the fsa still have to clear the frame, i think we needed to adjust the FD by a v small amount.
    the Praxis locks in place as its screwed up, i didn't go for that style as its much more expensive, the WM adaptors removed any creaks etc and worked for many 1000s of miles, before frame sold.
  • bianchibobbianchibob Posts: 306
    Similar to above I am building up a Specialized Venge with a BB30 bottom bracket. Have decided to install Shimano Ultegra 6800 and as above Wheels Manufacturing adaptors.
    These adaptors effectively take the place of the external bearings. They are a push fit into the BB30 bearings and the crank just slides into place in the normal manner.
    However on the Venge I need to install a couple of spacers as the Shimano crank spindle/shaft is slightly longer than the BB30 / Wheels set up.
    I have purchased the spacers from Planet X and will install over the weekend.
    The required spacer to allow setting the crank is approx. 1.5mm in my case and I would propose to install one spacer on the non-drive side.
    However trial and error will see if this works, if not will try the drive side.
    Initially I will set the front cogs in such a way as the mid point of their set up is at the mid point of the rear cassette. Will measure this by putting a straight edge across front chain wheel and observe its relationship with the rear cassette. Again this will determine where the spacer(s) will go.
    Hope this helps.
  • plodder73plodder73 Posts: 318
    Thanks I did look at the Wheels one, do they not keep the existing bearings in place? If so can't see how that will help as its the bearings that are making the noise. Have I misunderstood how the Wheels ones work?
  • bianchibobbianchibob Posts: 306
    The existing BB£) bearings have to be in place to fit the Wheels adaptors into them. The good thing about the Wheels system is that it is easily reversed.
    I did consider removing the BB30 bearings and fitting an FSA adaptor that then takes the Shimano external bearings.
    Not sure how easy it is to install and it looks quite difficult to remove, so decided for simplicity to use Wheels system.
    If your BB30 bearings are in poor condition you would have to replace them prior to using Wheels adaptors otherwise your problem will still persist.
    Not sure if this is true but I have been told that the installation of these adaptors can remove the 'creaking' of the BB30 that you are referring to, possibly by the clamping effect of installing the Shimano crank to the correct torque etc.
  • plodder73plodder73 Posts: 318
    Cheers Bianchbob, I was at the point of nearly buying a Bianchi Sempre Pro this week, the only thing that stopped me was they again use Bb30. Next bike won't have BB30 for sure.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Plodder73 wrote:
    Thanks I did look at the Wheels one, do they not keep the existing bearings in place? If so can't see how that will help as its the bearings that are making the noise. Have I misunderstood how the Wheels ones work?

    they remove the creaking because (I believe) this noise comes from the interface between the crank spindle and the inner bearing race, a BB90 etc or HT2 has the crank/inner bearing running in a plastic sleeve.

    the CAAD 10 we had, suffered from horrendous noise, sounded like the BB was coming away from the frame - cleaning/regreasing and re torqueing all helped but it would always come back, seemed very sensitive to torque on left crank arm.

    the FSA pressed in sleeve is semi permanent, a press is needed to fit and remove, if its not bonded in first and the Praxis style adaptors have been known to break - the WM ones fit inside existing bearings but if they are knackered, then maybe its worth try the Praxis?

    We sold our CAAD to someone who had a BB30 group set, so glad we went for the WM.
  • It's common knowledge that the bearing moving very slightly against the insert on the frame can cause creaks. If you use Loctite bearing retainer it can help massively with this problem. I've used this method on my BB30 frame and it's been creak free all year including many rides in the wet.

    You'd probably have to buy new bearings though (£10) and the Wheels Mfg adaptor (£25) and the Loctite (£8) so you may be as well buying the Praxis.

    Be aware though they don't always work. I used one when building my bike and it creaked from new when out of the saddle. Eventually gave up on it.....
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    It's common knowledge that the bearing moving very slightly against the insert on the frame can cause creaks. If you use Loctite bearing retainer it can help massively with this problem. I've used this method on my BB30 frame and it's been creak free all year including many rides in the wet.

    I m not sure on this - it may be common belief but not always correct, why else would WM adaptors work, using same bearings?
    I don't know what the definitive answer is, so many people find different things work but not for others.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,402
    Plodder73 wrote:
    How does this affect the chain line and the front derailleur?

    It won't. BB30 chainsets have a different width profile to HT2, so the chainline will be practically identical, whichever is fitted...
  • I'm not sure I'm getting your point? WM do work with with BB30 bearings that's what their designed for.

    The creaks etc usually come from metal on metal contact and there being sight movement between the surfaces. This is why grease helps but doesn't always last very long. If you're using the WM adaptor's then that rule out metal on metal contact between the bearing ID and the crank spindle as the adaptor is made from derlin. This is the main reason the WM adaptor gets better reviews than similar items made from metal.

    If you eliminate that metal on metal contact with the WM adaptor then the only other area that could cause creaking is the OD of the bearing and the sleeve in the frame. If you prevent any movement between these 2 with bearing retainer then in theory it should stop all BB noises. That's what my experience has been anyway although it may not work in all cases. The same way that the Praxis won't work in all cases. :-)
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    You originally said it was commonly acknowledged that the creaking is caused by the bearings moving inside the frame BB shell.
    if this is so, then WM adaptors wouldn't work as they leave the suspect bearing still in place......... :roll:

    I still have the WM adaptors and have lent to 3 friends who have bb30 frames and in every case they have eliminated the noise, even with bearings that are knackered.

    But who cares? what matters is that you found a solution for your particular issue.
  • plodder73plodder73 Posts: 318
    Thanks, thought I had decided on the Praxis didnt realise it wasnt always successful. As they are £55 a go plus the cost of the chainset may have a rethink. My belief was that the noise came from the outer of the bearing and the frame which is why I was hesitant on the WM ones.
  • plodder73plodder73 Posts: 318
    mamba80 wrote:
    You originally said it was commonly acknowledged that the creaking is caused by the bearings moving inside the frame BB shell.
    if this is so, then WM adaptors wouldn't work as they leave the suspect bearing still in place......... :roll:

    I still have the WM adaptors and have lent to 3 friends who have bb30 frames and in every case they have eliminated the noise, even with bearings that are knackered.

    But who cares? what matters is that you found a solution for your particular issue.

    How can they work with knackered bearings, if its still the bearings that are spinning? The WM don't have a new bearing part do they?
  • bianchibobbianchibob Posts: 306
    Up date on Specialized Venge build. Have fitted WM adaptors and appropriate spacers to the OSS BB30 bottom bracket and then fitted 11 speed 6800 Ultegra crankset.

    Dead easy job, took bike for 35 mile ride, no creaking or issues with gear change etc.

    Very pleased with the WM adators and if I want I can always and easily revert back to a BB30 crankset set up......but why would I this one is perfect.
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