Any regular road riders not wear helmets?

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  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,474
    Perhaps a different way to think about it; if you had the choice, would you ride a motorcycle without a helmet?

    I imagine the venn diagram of answers would be a circle with the "pro cycle helmet" camp all inside the "yes I'd wear a motorcycle helmet" circle, with the "I don't wear a helmet" camp mostly inside the "Yes" circle, and just a small handful in the "no" circle.

    Motorcycling is known to be significantly more dangerous than cycling - even with mandatory helmets, there is a motorbike death nearly once every 600,000 trips, compared to once ever 8,000,000 trips for cycling and once every 40,000,000+ or so for car drivers and passengers.

    At how many trips / death does it become sensible to wear a helmet?

    (figures from http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/ctc-cycling-statistics)

    OTOH, what is the chance of me dying riding a bike? 1 in 8,000,000 (with or without a helmet, if the trend for the past 10 years implies no reduction in deaths per trip despite an increase in helmet wearing) sounds like pretty good odds on my side - though more likely than me winning the lottery.

    Matt
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  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    larkim wrote:
    Motorcycling is known to be significantly more dangerous than cycling

    Which is why most motor cyclists will wear leathers, the full gear to protect themselves whereas us cyclist just wear a helmet at most.

    So I guess asking cyclists if they wear a helmet is like asking motor cyclists if they wear the full set of protective clothing? Most will, some won't. To legislate that all cyclists must wear a helmet is pehaps similar to making full protective clothing mandatory for motor cyclists?

    Of course the difference is that you can survive without your limbs or damage to the body, but damage to the head is going to be more life threatening.
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Mikey1976 wrote:

    3 years ago.
    Yes, badly cracked my helmet instead of badly cracking my skull!

    Surely common sense must prevail, and if there is a chance of something saving me from brain damage then I will wear it.

    Like I said in my previous post "personally I think its stupid not too" and that is my opinion.
    If you don't mind me asking - what was the cause of your accident 3 years ago? If it was self-inflicted have you modified your riding style? If it was a 3rd party cause then I guess there's not much you can do - other than not ride ...

    Common sense isn't "common" ... there's a chance of something saving you from brain damage - it could be as drastic as sitting on the sofa instead of cycling - or perhaps you could ride a trike - a little more stable than a bike providing you avoid cambers in the road - or perhaps a full head helmet rather than a bit of polystyrene on top?

    FWIW - I've had 2 significant blows to my head in my lifetime (neither to do with cycling) - I wasn't wearing and head protection and nor would I have expected to have done - the first was falling out of a tree - my own silly fault - nothing but a sore head (and a sit down on the sofa for 1/2 hr!) and the second time was being hit by a boom on a boat (didn't duck!) again, my own silly fault - dazed for 20 seconds then got on with racing.
    I'm certain both those impacts would've cracked a normal cycling helmet - but as I wasn't hurt it's clear that a helmet would've offered no extra protection. In fact,in sailing the opposite would be true as (having had to wear one whilst instructing) I've hit my head more times wearing a helmet sailing than not ...

    But I guess you can ignore everything I've written as I'm stupid because I didn't wear a lid on the way to work this morning ... it was nice not wearing it ... and it's nice to have the freedom to do as I see fit.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    larkim wrote:
    At how many trips / death does it become sensible to wear a helmet?
    One complication is that I suspect there is a large variation in risk with cycling depending on the type of cycling that you do, more so than with other activities where there is more of a "one size fits all" risk assessment.

    Let's face it, riding a sit-up-and-beg bike to the shops at 12mph on a cycle path or quiet roads is a very low risk activity. Sure, you might fall off and hit your head and die, but you might also fall down the stairs. Anyone who says that everyone who doesn't wear a helmet for this activity is an idiot is an idiot. :wink:

    Regularly riding fast on windy / rolling roads, especially with descents or in groups (i.e. road cycling as a sport) is probably more risky than some of us care to admit. That French study I cited a few pages back seems to support that, finding that helmets seemed to offer much more protection for riders in the countryside (likely "proper" cyclists) than in towns. Many of us have fallen off and smashed helmets at various times, and of course if you are doing large mileages every week the absolute risk is increased.

    The most ambiguous situation seems to be riding in traffic / commuting. On the face of it this seems to be the most dangerous activity, but it could be that helmets actually offer less protection here than they do in "sports" riding. Maybe accidents in towns cluster more around two different types - being hit hard by a car at speed (in which case maybe the helmet isn't going to help you much), and falling off at lower speeds due to altercations at junctions or simply rider error at lower speeds than you would be riding at on open roads.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Slowbike wrote:
    But I guess you can ignore everything I've written as I'm stupid because I didn't wear a lid on the way to work this morning ... it was nice not wearing it ... and it's nice to have the freedom to do as I see fit.

    Well...I don't think you recognise the risk you are running, just my personal opinion. Of course you enjoy cycling without a helmet when nothing happens to you, the helmet is not needed on such occasions. BUT, what if you had an accident (agreed unlikely) and you hit your head squarely on the road and suffered brain damage, or worse, died as a result? A helmet may not have prevented you getting some brain damage but likely it would have improved the outcome.

    Simply put, why take the risk?

    And I'll put my other dimension into play here. Say it was me that caused the accident and knocked you off your bike. I'd feel bad enough, but then to find out you suffered brain damage or died and wasn't wearing a helmet would make me feel pretty depressed knowing that had you been wearing a helmet, I may have not caused your death.

    It isn't just you that's affected by your decision.
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    drlodge wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    But I guess you can ignore everything I've written as I'm stupid because I didn't wear a lid on the way to work this morning ... it was nice not wearing it ... and it's nice to have the freedom to do as I see fit.

    Well...I don't think you recognise the risk you are running, just my personal opinion.
    It was a concious decision - brought about by this thread to see if I'd ride any differently - to start with I noticed how close vehicles passed me then as the ride continued I thought about it less. It helps that the second 1/2 of my ride is quiet country lanes (and if a vehicle was coming I'd hear it long before I'd see it). Interestingly I rode at a similar pace to normal (normal is with helmet) so I don't think I did ride differently - which is good because I don't want to feel like I'm pushing myself extra just because I've got a helmet on.
    drlodge wrote:
    Of course you enjoy cycling without a helmet ....
    Well - if you recognise that then you can appreciate the desire not to wear one.
    drlodge wrote:
    .. when nothing happens to you, the helmet is not needed on such occasions.
    as it has been all the time I've ridden... I've been knocked off once - didn't hit my head though.
    drlodge wrote:
    BUT, what if you had an accident (agreed unlikely) and you hit your head squarely on the road and suffered brain damage, or worse, died as a result? A helmet may not have prevented you getting some brain damage but likely it would have improved the outcome.
    That's the point - it's unlikely - having an accident (for the riding that I do) and then hitting my head and then suffering brain damage - it's probably the same chance as winning a significant sum on lottery ... doesn't make it impossible...
    drlodge wrote:
    Simply put, why take the risk?
    Why play the lottery? It's a risk - but not necessarily much of one - and it's nicer not to wear one - so why make life less pleasant? Sure, helmets can be comfortable - but you know what - it was so much nicer having the wind in my hair (yes I have hair!) this morning.
    drlodge wrote:
    And I'll put my other dimension into play here. Say it was me that caused the accident and knocked you off your bike. I'd feel bad enough, but then to find out you suffered brain damage or died and wasn't wearing a helmet would make me feel pretty depressed knowing that had you been wearing a helmet, I may have not caused your death.
    Quite frankly I wouldn't give a toss about how bad you felt!

    I don't intend to make a habit of not wearing a helmet on the commute - it's a mix of country A road and lanes - lanes are fine, the A road is reasonably busy and I've had a number of close passes - whilst I don't think the helmet would make a lot of difference if I was hit, there is a chance it would be beneficial and as it is just a commute then I can put up with it.
    For slow social rides I'll still decide depending on circumstances ...
  • VmanF3
    VmanF3 Posts: 240
    There is a photo on the front page of this website of a man riding a bike without wearing a helmet. It's certain death! Call the safety nazis, pull the advert, complain to the ASA, mobilize the troops, boycott the site, take the kittens to a safe place!
    Big Red, Blue, Pete, Bill & Doug
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    VmanF3 wrote:
    There is a photo on the front page of this website of a man riding a bike without wearing a helmet. It's certain death! Call the safety nazis, pull the advert, complain to the ASA, mobilize the troops, boycott the site, take the kittens to a safe place!
    You mean this?

    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gallery/a ... k-40255/1/

    I think he's wearing the new "helmet hair gel". It sets so hard it offers the same protection as a bike helmet.

    Besides, no-one trying that hard to be cool can afford to fall off their bike, they would die of shame anyway and a fatal head injury would just be a welcome quick-way-out.

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