Wiggins selfish
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Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...0
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Slowbike wrote:Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...
For queen and country, mun. Keep up.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
mile muncher wrote:The most embarrassing thing about the Worlds however is that the British team is unable to ride well in the rain, WTF! Those conditions tradtionally would have been described as favourable to the Brits I would have thought. The average keen UK cyclist does more grim weather riding than our European colleagues by virtue of the fact our weather is on the whole worse. And does'nt Wiggo live in Yorkshire or Lancashire, where there is lots of hills and it rains a lot? Does he abort and get his wife to come and pick him up if it rains? He needs to man up. On the other hand it does give me a crumb of comfort that although he would crush me in any other aspect of cycling I can safely say I am a better descender than Brad if there is even a hint of rain.
Just because you hold the passport of a place and have a house in an area with a particular type of climate it doesnt mean anything. I mean there was a joke a few years back that Rabobank were distinctly crap in crosswinds, always missing the split, which was hilarious when you consider that it is impossible to ride anywhere in the Netherlands with no wind (apart from on 2 or 3 weird days of the year).
Your whole argument is simply reductive. I grew up somewhere with ramps between 10-20%, I am not J-Rod. I grew up somewhere with no mountains yet I can spin away for hours up a mountain. I ride now on pan-flat roads in lots of wind but I haven't magically become a rouleur putting out big numbers as that would involve growing half a metre and putting on 30-40kg. I grew up somewhere with rain. Everytime I spend any period of time riding in the rain no matter what I wear I end up with a UTI.
Everyone is different and reacts differently to different types of conditions. Apparently Heinrich Haussler loves the freezing cold, a man who grew up in Australia, while Thor Hushovd hates it, a man who grew up in Norway.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:Slowbike wrote:Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...
For queen and country, mun. Keep up.
Do you think that's what Froome was saying to Wiggo?!0 -
Slowbike wrote:Salsiccia1 wrote:Slowbike wrote:Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...
For queen and country, mun. Keep up.
Do you think that's what Froome was saying to Wiggo?!
Dont think Froome got a chance to be close enough to him to say it!0 -
Above The Cows wrote:Everyone is different and reacts differently to different types of conditions. Apparently Heinrich Haussler loves the freezing cold, a man who grew up in Australia, while Thor Hushovd hates it, a man who grew up in Norway.Twitter: @RichN950
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Above The Cows wrote:mile muncher wrote:The most embarrassing thing about the Worlds however is that the British team is unable to ride well in the rain, WTF! Those conditions tradtionally would have been described as favourable to the Brits I would have thought. The average keen UK cyclist does more grim weather riding than our European colleagues by virtue of the fact our weather is on the whole worse. And does'nt Wiggo live in Yorkshire or Lancashire, where there is lots of hills and it rains a lot? Does he abort and get his wife to come and pick him up if it rains? He needs to man up. On the other hand it does give me a crumb of comfort that although he would crush me in any other aspect of cycling I can safely say I am a better descender than Brad if there is even a hint of rain.
Just because you hold the passport of a place and have a house in an area with a particular type of climate it doesnt mean anything. I mean there was a joke a few years back that Rabobank were distinctly crap in crosswinds, always missing the split, which was hilarious when you consider that it is impossible to ride anywhere in the Netherlands with no wind (apart from on 2 or 3 weird days of the year).
Your whole argument is simply reductive. I grew up somewhere with ramps between 10-20%, I am not J-Rod. I grew up somewhere with no mountains yet I can spin away for hours up a mountain. I ride now on pan-flat roads in lots of wind but I haven't magically become a rouleur putting out big numbers as that would involve growing half a metre and putting on 30-40kg. I grew up somewhere with rain. Everytime I spend any period of time riding in the rain no matter what I wear I end up with a UTI.
Everyone is different and reacts differently to different types of conditions. Apparently Heinrich Haussler loves the freezing cold, a man who grew up in Australia, while Thor Hushovd hates it, a man who grew up in Norway.
Fair enough point taken, riders have their preferences, and maybe I'm wrong but its just my opinion BC as a team should be able to deal with rain a bit better than they did. I think it just looked worse as they got the tactics wrong. Sky may have the Grand Tour strategy down but the Worlds was another example that their approach to 1 day races needs work.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:mile muncher wrote:The most embarrassing thing about the Worlds however is that the British team is unable to ride well in the rain, WTF! Those conditions tradtionally would have been described as favourable to the Brits I would have thought.
Everyone is different and reacts differently to different types of conditions. Apparently Heinrich Haussler loves the freezing cold, a man who grew up in Australia, while Thor Hushovd hates it, a man who grew up in Norway.
One of the things not mentioned about Brits being poor in rain on the Continent, is the possible psychological influence of the road surface. Road surfaces in the UK are generally rougher than those on the Continent, and faced with smoother wet surfaces abroad, the slight sense of security perhaps felt on rougher UK roads is then missing?0 -
Slowbike wrote:Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...0
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knedlicky wrote:One of the things not mentioned about Brits being poor in rain on the Continent, is the possible psychological influence of the road surface. Road surfaces in the UK are generally rougher than those on the Continent, and faced with smoother wet surfaces abroad, the slight sense of security perhaps felt on rougher UK roads is then missing?
I wonder if Wiggo suffers from having been a trackie for most of his formative years, which gave him the option of training indoors when the weather is cr*p. Whilst surviving hours in the freezing cold and rain is excellent preparation for a career on the road, there are no particular benefits from such conditions for riding on the track, and the temptation to stay inside and do a session on the boards, rollers or turbo would be overwhelming, one might think.0 -
These guys are pros who are based on the continent, not some club cyclist on a once-a-year trip. Might as well suggest WIggins is better at left turns because he's a former trackie.
Wiggins ticked a lot of boxes last year and the pressure to do more in order to reap publicity and income from it must be enormous, especially as he's heading into the latter stage of his racing career. A crash that wipes out his season or becoming a domestique for Froome aren't what his PR people need.0 -
Le Commentateur wrote:
These guys are pros who are based on the continent, not some club cyclist on a once-a-year trip. Might as well suggest WIggins is better at left turns because he's a former trackie.
So why is he so crap at descending in the wet?
Does he lack the "Descending in the wet" gene or is he technically deficient? Not everyone can handle a bike like Sagan, but (pretty much) all pros can descend in the wet to a comparable level except Sir Brad. When such deficiencies cost you any chance you have of winning a GT that you have stated is your target for the season, then it's legitimate to ask questions.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:Le Commentateur wrote:
These guys are pros who are based on the continent, not some club cyclist on a once-a-year trip. Might as well suggest WIggins is better at left turns because he's a former trackie.
So why is he so crap at descending in the wet?
Does he lack the "Descending in the wet" gene or is he technically deficient? Not everyone can handle a bike like Sagan, but (pretty much) all pros can descend in the wet to a comparable level except Sir Brad. When such deficiencies cost you any chance you have of winning a GT that you have stated is your target for the season, then it's legitimate to ask questions.
Ah so, it was that and not the knee injury or the virus now??
Seriously the Clinic will be looking at this thread and rolling their eyes and some of the rubbish on here...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:Le Commentateur wrote:
These guys are pros who are based on the continent, not some club cyclist on a once-a-year trip. Might as well suggest WIggins is better at left turns because he's a former trackie.
So why is he so crap at descending in the wet?
Does he lack the "Descending in the wet" gene or is he technically deficient? Not everyone can handle a bike like Sagan, but (pretty much) all pros can descend in the wet to a comparable level except Sir Brad. When such deficiencies cost you any chance you have of winning a GT that you have stated is your target for the season, then it's legitimate to ask questions.
It's a mental thing innit, compare Pineau's descending on TDF and then a couple of months later at Vuelta.0 -
ddraver wrote:Ah so, it was that and not the knee injury or the virus now??
Seriously the Clinic will be looking at this thread and rolling their eyes and some of the rubbish on here...
Wiggins initially lost time on a wet descent, which came before the ITT where he was very competitive and apparently amongst the fastest on the uphill section, so he was physically sound early on in the Giro. I doubt he was anywhere near 2012 form, but he certainly wasn't going badly at all.
The illness probably did come later - cycling for hours in the rain is notoriously bad for your health - and the knee injury may well be a convenient excuse, but the initial problem Wiggo had in the Giro was descending in the wet. You're not seriously trying to claim that he's not bad at this discipline are you?0 -
The only reason I am not writing a expletive filled Shouty rant about the utter inanity of 99% the Wiggins/Worlds discussions over the last week is because I'm at work and the keyboard isnt mine, but that's the only reason...
Seriously, A team that has smashed all of it's season goals rocks up at a race it has zero chance of winning and performs badly and we re all surprised?
Christ, Holly Willoughby must BLOW YOUR F**CKING MINDS every Saturday night!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
mile muncher wrote:The average keen UK cyclist does more grim weather riding than our European colleagues by virtue of the fact our weather is on the whole worse. And does'nt Wiggo live in Yorkshire or Lancashire, where there is lots of hills and it rains a lot? Does he abort and get his wife to come and pick him up if it rains? He needs to man up.
Interesting as I seem to remember this forum discussing a photo of Wiggins training this winter in the rain where some were commenting on how fat he looked. Guess you had to be around then.Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')0 -
Coach H wrote:Interesting as I seem to remember this forum discussing a photo of Wiggins training this winter in the rain where some were commenting on how fat he looked. Guess you had to be around then.
Maybe the forecast was wrong that day.0 -
knedlicky wrote:One of the things not mentioned about Brits being poor in rain on the Continent, is the possible psychological influence of the road surface. Road surfaces in the UK are generally rougher than those on the Continent, and faced with smoother wet surfaces abroad, the slight sense of security perhaps felt on rougher UK roads is then missing?0
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ddraver wrote:Seriously, A team that has smashed all of it's season goals rocks up at a race it has zero chance of winning and performs badly and we re all surprised?
The team didn't perform at all. They all (other than Froome) drifted or shot to the back at the first sign of pressure up front (Cav and Rowe to be expected) after which Froome gave up, despite the rest of the race offering plenty of evidence that a committed "lone raider" could still be prominent until the closing stages.
It's the wholesale "giving up" or inability to deal with the terrain that seems to be the cause of the debate, not the lack of success. Wiggo had a harder build up to the 2011 Worlds than this year and was still able to do a massive turn on the last lap in accordance with the Cav masterplan. This year, he was out with the washing after the first descent.0 -
mile muncher wrote:On the other hand it does give me a crumb of comfort that although he would crush me in any other aspect of cycling I can safely say I am a better descender than Brad if there is even a hint of rain.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Slowbike wrote:Salsiccia1 wrote:Slowbike wrote:Hadn't Froome already announced that he wasn't on form? Why bury yourself, risk crashing a breaking bones, for someone who is unlikely to win anyway...
For queen and country, mun. Keep up.
Do you think that's what Froome was saying to Wiggo?!
Dont think Froome got a chance to be close enough to him to say it!
Good move on Wiggo's part then!0 -
knedlicky wrote:I know I’m being picky, ATC, because I think your general argument is right, but Haussler and Hushovd aren’t the best examples because Haussler went to Germany in 1999, when 15 years old, and all his next 5 years of formative cycling were then in central Europe where the average daily temperature is below freezing for 3 months of each year, while southern Norway, where Hushovd comes from, actually has a milder climate than central Europe.
Aye, fair enough, it was the only example I could think of, off the top of my head, Rich had a better one with Lance and Ulle.knedlicky wrote:One of the things not mentioned about Brits being poor in rain on the Continent, is the possible psychological influence of the road surface. Road surfaces in the UK are generally rougher than those on the Continent, and faced with smoother wet surfaces abroad, the slight sense of security perhaps felt on rougher UK roads is then missing?
Hmmm good point. I did remark on the time how new that road surface was, it was very shiny slick. It didn't use to be. The roads around Fiesole used to be bloody awful, much like many British roads in fact, but I digress.ddraver wrote:Christ, Holly Willoughby must BLOW YOUR F**CKING MINDS every Saturday night!
Who's Holly Willoughby? And what am I missing out on?Correlation is not causation.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:
Who's Holly Willoughby? And what am I missing out on?Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Above The Cows wrote:
Who's Holly Willoughby? And what am I missing out on?
I can just look down for those and well... meh.Correlation is not causation.0 -
RichN95 wrote:Above The Cows wrote:
Who's Holly Willoughby? And what am I missing out on?
ITV are flogging the Surprise Surprise Horse again, Holly is presenting. Appears to be an hour of stuff to make my Aunt and housemate cry...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Not saying it has happened to Bard but people's nerve does go. I used to love hammering down hills as fast as possible and never thought of the consequences of a sheep running out or a milk tanker pulling out of a farm entrance when I was doing 50mph. After a break from riding I cam back more cautious and recently I've been getting dropped on narrow descents as I've completely lost my nerve following a high speed racing crash and being involved with a race where someone was killed - I get really nervous watching friends hurtling downhill when I'm thinking a car could come the other way at any moment and there's no way to miss them. So who knows what little voices of doubt are in Wiggins head? Alternatively maybe he is just getting his own back for what he feels was Froome trying to stab him in the back / embarrass him at last year's Tour.0
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ddraver wrote:RichN95 wrote:Above The Cows wrote:
Who's Holly Willoughby? And what am I missing out on?
ITV are flogging the Surprise Surprise Horse again, Holly is presenting. Appears to be an hour of stuff to make my Aunt and housemate cry...
and grown men dribble like everything else she presents!0