Pro Carbon or RT-58?

Camcycle1974
Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
edited August 2013 in Road buying advice
So, here's the rub.

Have a Giant Defy 0 which is a bit too big. ETT of 56cm, I am 5"9.5 for reference and looking at medium frames in both models which I assume is right for my height?

To replace it I am looking at either the PX Pro Carbon Ultegra (yet to be released at the bargainous price of £999) or their new sportive inspired RT-58 (out of stock until October) Would the extra £500 be worth it for a better frame and approx 1kg in weight (kit is much the same) or is the Pro Carbon the best option regardless of price? Obviously got some time to mull it over but want to get it right this time. Hard when the bikes are in Sheffield and I am in Cambridge.

Comments

  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    RT58 is more a sportive geometry and slighlty different chainset. If you get the Pro Carbon it can be upgraded when you spec it to make it lighter (ie wheels Model B's are much lighter than R501's). RT58 looks really nice in the flesh internal cables etc.
    Good luck
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    Sorry forgot to add I think Medium in Pro Carbon and perhaps Small in RT58 because of geometry. If you cannot visit and try them give them a call with your inseam size etc, ask for Craig and speak to him if you can, really nice helpful guy.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Thanks for the pointers. Will give them a call when I have sorted out my Giant issues. Hopefully seeing a 58 next week but not sure its worth the extra £500. I can swap the Giant like for like with the Pro Carbon pretty much which is a bonus. The only slight issue is geometry which will be more aggressive than the Defy I have been riding. Ideally need to get up there to sit on one, buying blind is always fraught with danger.

    Good point re upgrades, I will definitely spec a carbon seat post, different wheels and maybe chainset. Overall weight around 7.5kg would be nice. Think these will be popular so need to make a decision fairly soon.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    My Pro Carbon came with SRAM Rival and AL30 wheels (1650gm approx without skewers), with a few upgrades saddle, post, bars etc weight is down to 7.32kg/16.1lb.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    diamonddog wrote:
    My Pro Carbon came with SRAM Rival and AL30 wheels (1650gm approx without skewers), with a few upgrades saddle, post, bars etc weight is down to 7.32kg/16.1lb.

    Wow, that's light for the money. Trust you are happy with how it rides? Guess Ultegra will weigh about the same as Rival so any weight saving will be in the other components. Overall weight not too much of a concern but lighter wheels would be good. Have some handbuilts which are in the 1600 g region which will go on the bike. Wonder if they would spec one without wheels?!
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    TBO I wouldn't alter chainset, if you have wheels could be worth asking about supplying without, who knows they may do it if you look to upgrade other bits saddle etc from them, they do have some good deals on Selle Italia etc.

    I have been more than happy with mine, ride wise it is very responsive, still a few upgrades to get the weight down it might end up being my bike for the hills depending which bike I get next (still deciding).

    Post a description and pics if/when you get it.
    Cheers
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Will do. Best to ring them I think. Will try and speak to Craig.. Was thinking the same, they might let me upgrade if I don't have wheels.
  • frazered
    frazered Posts: 333
    the ultegra groupset is a bit heavier than rival - not big differences overall though

    http://www.bespokecyclesderby.co.uk/hello-world-2/

    Groupset-Weights.gif
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    I'd point out with the Pro Carbon, the small frame only has mounts for one bottle cage.

    When I bought one in 2007 I just missed out on the Ultegra for 999 deal so had to settle for 105 instead. Now they are able to do it at that price again.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    i am a medium by my reckoning. seat tube would be too extended otherwise . compact frame so a bit easier to size
  • LJK94
    LJK94 Posts: 18
    When & where will it be sold at £999?
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    LJK94 wrote:
    When & where will it be sold at £999?
    planet x. end of august.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    i am a medium by my reckoning. seat tube would be too extended otherwise . compact frame so a bit easier to size

    Mine was a small and the seat tube did extend very high. The slope of the top tube gave it a really small rear triangle. They put deep drop bars at the front and it made it all look very disproportional. Looked like a BMX with drops.

    As others have pointed out it is really easy to get the weight < 7.5 kgs. Really does live up to the super light name.

    The ride was very comfortable and a little twitchy initially but it was easy to get used to. Then it felt quite sharp in corners.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Thanks for the info. How tall are you out of interest? Kind of used to compact frames, my commuter and current bike are both compact. My Defy frame is too big as I only have about 6" of seat post showing. Would prefer more like 1ft. Don't want too aggressive a position. Think they spec them with shallow bars now. Weight and handling sound just what I am looking for.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    About 5'7. I could have gone for a small or medium and used opposite size stem and seatpost height. If I remember I went for a small because they didn't have any mediums at the time. Not a very good reason but apart from only one bottle cage mount, it worked out ok. The new bike is a small frame as well but it is better proportioned and has two cage mounts.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    thanks. just under 5"10 so definitely a medium for me. currently on an m/l defy which is slightly too big. what new frame have you gone for? will wait a bit to see the rt-58. the geometry is slightly better for me and prefer the more conventional frame rather than the super compact pro carbon. £500 is a big premium but it might be worth it.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Bike shop sponsored a team and were selling an ex-team Orbea Orca for a bargain price of 75% off RRP. I got that and sold the PX. Ended up paying £450 for a something that retailed at about £4500. Buying second hand is not exactly the stuff of dreams but I'm very happy with what I got for the price.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Sounds like you got a bargain tbh. Will bide my time until I have seen both bikes in the flesh.
  • Trickle
    Trickle Posts: 22
    My Medium (roughly 54") Defy 3 is fractionally bigger than my Medium Rt58, but they are more or less the same. I am 5 11".

    The RT58 has somewhat more aggressive geometry. My handlebars are roughly 2cm lower. The ride is a little harsher, but I think this might be more down to the spaghetty wheels on my Defy.

    I have no experience with Pro Carbons. Apart from being blown away on accents by people riding them... on both bikes :|

    Force might be lighter than Ultegra but it doesn't have a proper trim function. I'm not sure I'll ever get over that.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Thanks Trickie, great info from someone who has both bikes. I am shorter than you but have a bigger Defy, the shop I got it from got the sizing wrong and i was too naive at the time to realise.Interesting what you say about the geometry. Slightly lower would be good, hae always felt a bit upright on my Defy (the M/L I have has an 18.5cm head tube!). Trim is useful on Ultegra which is what I am used to so the Pro Carbon with Ultegra might be the ideal choice. Bit more aggressive still I expect. They are quick by all accounts and it would not be too much of a stretch from selling the Defy to buying the PC. The 58 would be more of an investment. Do you find the 58 quicker than the Defy out of interest?

    Once again, thanks for the input.
  • Trickle
    Trickle Posts: 22
    The 2.25Kg difference can't be ignored every time you pick either bike up. Lots of hills where I live. Much less difference between a Defy0 and a Pro Carbon.

    The Rt58 is much stiffer which I think makes a big difference when sprinting. Again a Defy0 has a pressed bottom bracket and better cranks. And wheels. And sensibly shaped drops. Perhaps a lot less difference.

    I would't buy the RT58 without seeing it in the flesh. Not everyone will get on with the mat black looks. Others may prefer it over an overly decaled bike like a Giant. Either way there is nothing stealth about it. Mat black sticks out like a sore thumb vs other bikes on the road. This surprised me. Also see the thread in the your bikes forum for the pics from the guy who remove the wheel decals if you don't like those - I'll be doing that after the 1 year warranty expires.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    by my reckoning the rt58 or pro carbon for that matter would be 2kgs lighter than my defy 0. i have upgraded the wheels already. my issue is more looks and the fact the frame is too big. i can get the pro carbon down to 7.5kg quite easily by using the wheels i have and selling on the set it comes with. trying to justify the extra for the 58. if i like the look of it more than the pro carbon i will accept the price hike. might get the 58 less than 7kgs which would be enticing.the Matt black is what attracted me in the first place. not a fan of white, shiny bikes.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Seems PX have changed the spec of the RT-58. I don't mind changing from Force to Ultegra but it's Ultegra silver and the chainset is silver too. Good way to spoil the stealth look. Deda finishing kit doesn't look as nice either and the red tires are naff (they would come straight off in favour of my Conti 4000s) Don't really wantto change a load of stuff on a new bike. seat post, stem and possibly chain set would all have to go. Can't justify the cost so it looks like a Pro carbon for me.
  • Stupid-death
    Stupid-death Posts: 63
    Being only 5ft 6in would always rule out the pro carbon for me, only room for one bottle cage on the small frame.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    That is a bit of a design faux-pas to be fair.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    It is the seat tube size between top tube and bottom bracket that does not allow for a bottle cage. It has never been a problem for me, if I go on a longer ride I take a 750 bottle and that's fine.
  • Stupid-death
    Stupid-death Posts: 63
    I get through 2x 750ml bottles on my 4+ hour weekend rides depending on the weather and terrain.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    That's enough for me to swim in :D If I need any more I will nip into a shop and buy a bottle.

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