Was this cyclist in the right or wrong

the playing mantisthe playing mantis Posts: 2,129
edited July 2013 in Road general
Ok picture the scene, a traffic light controlled crossroads on a b road. car at front of queue waiting at lights to go green to go straight on. cars behind it. little bit of room for a pelican crossing in front of each road approcahing the crossroads so there is room in front of the front cars before the actual 'crossing road'

a cyclist pulls up along side on the left of the car at the front of the queue, and unclips puts his foot down. fine no problem. next this cyclists riding companion, wobbles up the left hand side between his mate and the car in front, not unclipping and barely keeping upright, and proceeds to wobble beyond his mate, and across in front of the car waiting at the red light. there is no box markings for cyclists at on the road, and its just a bog standard traffic light controlled crossroads, as mentioned above with a bit of space for the pedesttrian crossing in front of the 'lead' cars. wobbly cyclist is not turning right at crossroads but is going straight on.

lights change and wobbly cyclist is in middle of road infront of lead car. holding them up. his mate remained on the left out of the way.

was this wobbly cyclist in the wrong, or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did (creep up the left hand side of stationery cars and then go in tot he missle of the road effectively blocking the cars and holding them up) or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did and his actions are fine?

opinions?
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Posts

  • PituophisPituophis Posts: 1,025
    I'm guessing there will be lots of opinions on both sides for this one.
    Personally I don't pass the front of the queue and always un clip.
    I often see the other type of cyclist though, and always think they look like idiots. Maybe that's just the car driver in me, 'cause I'm pretty sure that's what they're thinking. :(
    Just an honest answer :oops:
  • fatsmokerfatsmoker Posts: 638
    Wrong, unless he accelerated like a pro, or the road was too narrow to make passing by the car safe, or there would be no point in the car passing passing because of another set of lights just up the road.
  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 8,191
    I vote no - he sounds a censored . I rarely crawl up the side of cars, I stay behind as I was driving - easier and safer both for driver and me.

    I did the manc/blackpool ride yesterday and sadly what you describe was the norm - except instead of one cyclist it was 4 or 5 or 6.

    One thing I don't get is why some riders do the track stand at lights - who are the trying to impress.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • seanoconnseanoconn Posts: 5,607
    Ok picture the scene, a traffic light controlled crossroads on a b road. car at front of queue waiting at lights to go green to go straight on. cars behind it. little bit of room for a pelican crossing in front of each road approcahing the crossroads so there is room in front of the front cars before the actual 'crossing road'

    a cyclist pulls up along side on the left of the car at the front of the queue, and unclips puts his foot down. fine no problem. next this cyclists riding companion, wobbles up the left hand side between his mate and the car in front, not unclipping and barely keeping upright, and proceeds to wobble beyond his mate, and across in front of the car waiting at the red light. there is no box markings for cyclists at on the road, and its just a bog standard traffic light controlled crossroads, as mentioned above with a bit of space for the pedesttrian crossing in front of the 'lead' cars. wobbly cyclist is not turning right at crossroads but is going straight on.

    lights change and wobbly cyclist is in middle of road infront of lead car. holding them up. his mate remained on the left out of the way.

    was this wobbly cyclist in the wrong, or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did (creep up the left hand side of stationery cars and then go in tot he missle of the road effectively blocking the cars and holding them up) or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did and his actions are fine?

    opinions?
    Slightly off topic but where have you been the past few weeks??

    I'm extremely nosey so feel free to tell me to mind my own.
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • fatsmoker wrote:
    Wrong, unless he accelerated like a pro, or the road was too narrow to make passing by the car safe, or there would be no point in the car passing passing because of another set of lights just up the road.

    nope didnt accelerate like a pro, old enough to know better, plenty of room for car to pass safely, open road beyond these crossroads.

    people like this make car drivers dislike cyclists. completely no need to do what he did and just plain inconsiderate.
  • fatsmokerfatsmoker Posts: 638
    bit of a censored then.
  • I vote no - he sounds a censored . I rarely crawl up the side of cars, I stay behind as I was driving - easier and safer both for driver and me.

    I did the manc/blackpool ride yesterday and sadly what you describe was the norm - except instead of one cyclist it was 4 or 5 or 6.

    One thing I don't get is why some riders do the track stand at lights - who are the trying to impress.


    it wouldnt have been a problem if hed just crept up the left hand side as his mate did, as there was ample room enough to do it, even though i dont think people should do that., the fact he pulled in front of the first car was the stupid thing, just cos seemingly he didnt want to unclip
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I'd have stayed on the left. Blocking traffic just sounds stupid. And if he'd stayed behind that would have been one less car to potentially hit him.

    By all means go ahead of the car if there is space - then you're less likely to get turned across, but don't block the car.
  • seanoconn wrote:
    Ok picture the scene, a traffic light controlled crossroads on a b road. car at front of queue waiting at lights to go green to go straight on. cars behind it. little bit of room for a pelican crossing in front of each road approcahing the crossroads so there is room in front of the front cars before the actual 'crossing road'

    a cyclist pulls up along side on the left of the car at the front of the queue, and unclips puts his foot down. fine no problem. next this cyclists riding companion, wobbles up the left hand side between his mate and the car in front, not unclipping and barely keeping upright, and proceeds to wobble beyond his mate, and across in front of the car waiting at the red light. there is no box markings for cyclists at on the road, and its just a bog standard traffic light controlled crossroads, as mentioned above with a bit of space for the pedesttrian crossing in front of the 'lead' cars. wobbly cyclist is not turning right at crossroads but is going straight on.

    lights change and wobbly cyclist is in middle of road infront of lead car. holding them up. his mate remained on the left out of the way.

    was this wobbly cyclist in the wrong, or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did (creep up the left hand side of stationery cars and then go in tot he missle of the road effectively blocking the cars and holding them up) or was he perfectly entitled to do what he did and his actions are fine?

    opinions?
    Slightly off topic but where have you been the past few weeks??

    I'm extremely nosey so feel free to tell me to mind my own.

    yeah, f off and mind ur own!

    just took a much needed sabbatical, combined with not actually cycling on road for the last month and a half, the above incident prompted me to return though, not sure how long for, really depends on if ive missed vtechs bbq...
  • chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,919
    You don't have to accelerate like a pro to not hold up drivers when the lights change, providing you're alert and move immediately. If he dawdled then yes, inconsiderate, but if he had got on with it as the lights changed, and pulled over to the left immediately once he was moving, I don't see the problem in principle.

    Even the existence of a bike box at a traffic lights doesn't mean it's perfectly Ok to hang about and hold everyone up behind. And you still have to get through to the bike box somehow. If there really isn't space to get through without risking scraping the bars then yes, wait in line, but if there's room, what are you going to do, wait in a traffic jam from twenty cars back through several cycles of red-green-red-green?
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • cougie wrote:
    I'd have stayed on the left. Blocking traffic just sounds stupid. And if he'd stayed behind that would have been one less car to potentially hit him.

    By all means go ahead of the car if there is space - then you're less likely to get turned across, but don't block the car.

    well whats is defined as space? the car was at the white line, but there was space as the cyclist encroached on the pelican crossing in front of the line.

    imo he should have just retained his position in the middle of the road amongst the traffic, not crept up left hand side, and defo not pulled in front of the lead car. it wasnt as if there was a lot of cars queuning either just 3 or 4, so he got no benefit from doing what he did.
  • You don't have to accelerate like a pro to not hold up drivers when the lights change, providing you're alert and move immediately. If he dawdled then yes, inconsiderate, but if he had got on with it as the lights changed, and pulled over to the left immediately once he was moving, I don't see the problem in principle.

    Even the existence of a bike box at a traffic lights doesn't mean it's perfectly Ok to hang about and hold everyone up behind. And you still have to get through to the bike box somehow. If there really isn't space to get through without risking scraping the bars then yes, wait in line, but if there's room, what are you going to do, wait in a traffic jam from twenty cars back through several cycles of red-green-red-green?

    i thinks its inconsiderate to pull up in front of a lead car and thus inevitably hold them up, regardless of how fast you can accelerate from the lights, when it was of no benefit to the cyclist. and even if it was a benefit to the cyclist its still inconsiderate to block the traffic like that. if u have to do it, stay left so the car can get past without issue. (like this guys mate did) dont pull into the middle.
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,028
    Will look forward to his 'are clip less pedals really needed' thread then!
  • fatsmoker wrote:
    bit of a censored then.

    Need to know what bike he was riding first
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • diamonddogdiamonddog Posts: 3,214
    Obviously a plank! I wouldn't ride with them.
  • Mikey23 wrote:
    Will look forward to his 'are clip less pedals really needed' thread then!


    ?
  • fatsmoker wrote:
    bit of a censored then.

    Need to know what bike he was riding first

    it was either a trek or felt, one was on one one was on t'other.

    he was wearing shorts over his lycra bottoms though....(i do on a commute as i have to get on a busy train and dont want to scare the school kids at ingatestone as they get off the train, but not on a normal ride)
  • iPeteiPete Posts: 6,076
    I'd have filed in behind the last car, assuming the que was short enough to make the next green and didn't go straight onto the back of more traffic.

    Go me.
  • cattytowncattytown Posts: 647
    I did the manc/blackpool ride yesterday and sadly what you describe was the norm - except instead of one cyclist it was 4 or 5 or 6.

    I think you missed a "dozen" off the end. The number of red light ignorers irritated me. The worst of that I saw was near Preston where there were about 20-30 cyclists waiting at the lights and three just rode past the queue and through the lights.

    And the litter - I hate to think what the roads were like later, but the number of gels foils scattered over the roads was disappointing.

    Paul
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • pkripperpkripper Posts: 652
    You don't have to accelerate like a pro to not hold up drivers when the lights change, providing you're alert and move immediately. If he dawdled then yes, inconsiderate, but if he had got on with it as the lights changed, and pulled over to the left immediately once he was moving, I don't see the problem in principle.

    Even the existence of a bike box at a traffic lights doesn't mean it's perfectly Ok to hang about and hold everyone up behind. And you still have to get through to the bike box somehow. If there really isn't space to get through without risking scraping the bars then yes, wait in line, but if there's room, what are you going to do, wait in a traffic jam from twenty cars back through several cycles of red-green-red-green?

    This.
  • I vote no - he sounds a censored .

    +1
  • RiggedRigged Posts: 214
    You don't have to accelerate like a pro to not hold up drivers when the lights change, providing you're alert and move immediately. If he dawdled then yes, inconsiderate, but if he had got on with it as the lights changed, and pulled over to the left immediately once he was moving, I don't see the problem in principle.

    Even the existence of a bike box at a traffic lights doesn't mean it's perfectly Ok to hang about and hold everyone up behind. And you still have to get through to the bike box somehow. If there really isn't space to get through without risking scraping the bars then yes, wait in line, but if there's room, what are you going to do, wait in a traffic jam from twenty cars back through several cycles of red-green-red-green?


    This.

    If he returned to the left immediately then fine, he's probably caused no delay. He still probably didn't endear himself to the driver by coming up the inside and cutting back in right in front of him though, and understandably so.

    Me? I only move down the left side if there's no cars indicating to turn that way. If there are cars looking to turn left and potentially cut up a cyclist looking to skip down the left then I occupy the lane I need as if I were a car and move to the left edge of the lane once appropriate to let faster flowing traffic by.

    It's basically balancing keeping yourself safe on the road and not inconveniencing other road users. If my intention was to wait in the middle of the lane I wouldn't filter down either side before cutting in because I understand how frustrating that becomes for other people watching and I'd just wait my turn like any other car.
  • It's the motorcyclist in me I guess, but as far as I'm concerned, if by filtering you're going to put yourself in a position where
    Mangeur
  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 8,191
    ^^^

    Murdrered, choked, abducted...what's happened?
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • ProssPross Posts: 21,040
    If he crossed the stop line while the lights were red then he broke the law, simple really. I only get in front of the front vehicle if there's heavy traffic and they are going nowhere once the lights change. Even as a cyclist I find it annoying when driving and I eventually pass a slow moving bike when it's safe only for them to force their way through at a light, sometimes mounting the footway to pass. You then get stuck behind them, unable to pass safely for another long distance. However, if the driver could easily pass once the lights change it isn't an issue.
  • DruidorDruidor Posts: 230
    Personally think he was being a censored .

    I will always be to the side of the traffic if I have filtered up the line allowing the cars to go if I am not quick enough off the mark.

    If I am not filtering I will be part of the queue.
    ---
    Sensa Trentino SL Custom 2013 - 105 Compact - Aksium Race
  • PhilClubmanPhilClubman Posts: 229
    You don't have to accelerate like a pro to not hold up drivers when the lights change, providing you're alert and move immediately. If he dawdled then yes, inconsiderate, but if he had got on with it as the lights changed, and pulled over to the left immediately once he was moving, I don't see the problem in principle.

    +1

    No considerate driver should have a problem with this (I'm surprised so many cyclists seem to).
  • goonzgoonz Posts: 3,106
    fatsmoker wrote:
    bit of a censored then.

    Need to know what bike he was riding first

    Was he kitted out fully in lycra?
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  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    The rider's positioning in the lane after the lights went green is the only issue here.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    Generally you are substantially safer going one back from the leader. You never quite know when the lights will change and you don't want to be moving in front of a car as the lights change. Interestingly I will do this on the motorbike too unless I am pretty sure the lights wont suddenly change. The other consideration is zig zag lines (which while they don't apply to cycles) make it an offence to overtake the lead vehicle which has stopped or is stopping due to someone crossing at the lights/zebra.

    Being one back makes absolutely no difference to your progress when the lights change, but gives you a better chance of being seen and lowers the chance of you stopping just as they move off.
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