How to pursue reimbursement of costs after an accident?
curium
Posts: 815
Hi
I was knocked off my bicycle on 15/2/13 on Holloway Road at around 5:30pm.
Basically I was heading south down Holloway Road, in the bus lane when a white van driver pulled out of Jackson Road in manner that meant I collided with the front/right corner of the van.
I was taken from the scene by ambulance but fortunately only suffered concussion and some minor bleeding from my lip. I was kept in hospital overnight and discharged the following morning.
I have been patiently chasing the traffic unit of the police for progress over the last few months.
Currently the situation is that the witnesses that the police noted at the scene have not returned the questionnaires sent to them and the CCTV only caught the aftermath.
The traffic case manager says that they can't give me the van driver's statement - this would normally be obtained by a solicitor as part of a case report so I am unaware of his statement of events. I am increasingly of the opinion that at some point the police will announce they intend to take no further action.
My bicycle was written off and the paramedics cut off my bib-tights, jacket and backpack. I'm out of pocket to the amount of £1500-£2000
The traffic people have sent me the name, vehicle reg, insurance company and insurance certificate number of the van driver.
I am not insured and have no lasting injuries.
What are my options for recovering the £1500-£2000?
The various people I've spoken to indicate that because I wasn't seriously injured 'no win, no fee' solicitors may not be an option for me.
Basically as I see it I can either enter into correspondence directly with the van driver's insurance company detailing a breakdown of my costs and asking them to reimburse me or go through small claims court (would I claim directly against the van driver or the insurers).
Please advise on the above and, for the future, an affordable form of cyclist insurance that would pursue such matters on my behalf.
Thanks
I was knocked off my bicycle on 15/2/13 on Holloway Road at around 5:30pm.
Basically I was heading south down Holloway Road, in the bus lane when a white van driver pulled out of Jackson Road in manner that meant I collided with the front/right corner of the van.
I was taken from the scene by ambulance but fortunately only suffered concussion and some minor bleeding from my lip. I was kept in hospital overnight and discharged the following morning.
I have been patiently chasing the traffic unit of the police for progress over the last few months.
Currently the situation is that the witnesses that the police noted at the scene have not returned the questionnaires sent to them and the CCTV only caught the aftermath.
The traffic case manager says that they can't give me the van driver's statement - this would normally be obtained by a solicitor as part of a case report so I am unaware of his statement of events. I am increasingly of the opinion that at some point the police will announce they intend to take no further action.
My bicycle was written off and the paramedics cut off my bib-tights, jacket and backpack. I'm out of pocket to the amount of £1500-£2000
The traffic people have sent me the name, vehicle reg, insurance company and insurance certificate number of the van driver.
I am not insured and have no lasting injuries.
What are my options for recovering the £1500-£2000?
The various people I've spoken to indicate that because I wasn't seriously injured 'no win, no fee' solicitors may not be an option for me.
Basically as I see it I can either enter into correspondence directly with the van driver's insurance company detailing a breakdown of my costs and asking them to reimburse me or go through small claims court (would I claim directly against the van driver or the insurers).
Please advise on the above and, for the future, an affordable form of cyclist insurance that would pursue such matters on my behalf.
Thanks
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Comments
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CTC or British cycling membership would have provided you with the means to pursue this, as legal representation is provided as part of the membership fee; I'm currently pursuing 2 clams, one against the local council and one against a car driver via this route.0
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gbsahne wrote:CTC or British cycling membership would have provided you with the means to pursue this, as legal representation is provided as part of the membership fee; I'm currently pursuing 2 clams, one against the local council and one against a car driver via this route.
That's true however you can still contact them or any solicitor and see if they will take your case.
Alternatively, get in touch with the drivers insurance company. What matters here is if the driver has admitted fault or not.
I got good service from Direct Line when one of their insured hit me, but then she'd admitted fault.0 -
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you and anyone should instruct a solicitor on Day 1.
BC would have done all this for you if you were a member, otherwise now go to a cycle specialist solicitors, there are plenty of them.Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young0 -
I was not a member of BC at the time as I've stated above. I've been advised that 'no win, no fee' is not an option as I had no serious injuries. Small claims court will cost me £80.
Instructing a solicitor will likely cost a lot more than £80 in order to claim £1500-£2000. Apparently even if I instructed a solicitor and he was successful, the solicitor would not be able to claim their costs back from the 3rd-party so it would have to come out of my £1500-£2000.
As I stated in my original post, I was not a member of any organisation that provides relevant insurance and 'no win, no fee' is not available to me due to no serious injuries and the relatively small amount I'm seeking to recover.
So really I'm looking for advice within the constraints of the circumstances I have described.
If you know of a solicitor that will pursue this for me for no more than £200-£300 than please let me know but otherwise it would seem that a solicitor is not an option.0 -
I have been in that situation. I am not legally qualified.
The police are useless if the perpetrator did not draw blood, although the law is quite clear. However that's criminal stuff ... you want the the civil courts to get your costs, and fortunately that's easy.
Assuming you are in the right, and that you have have some reasonable chance of proving it (eg pictures of the scene, attendance by law officers who saw the location, witness statements), then it's easy. Don't play this game if you are not in fact innocent (for example if you were cycling on the pavement or without lights).
All I did was write a very brief summary of the event and mail it, plus a copy of my receipts, to the perpetrator. One side of A4 in clear English. Google how much time you are obliged to give them to pay up and tell them what it is, and that you'll issue proceedings without further notice should you not receive your costs in full. If you're concerned then get the letter delivered registered post.
Note that there is no obligation on you to "get three quotes", only for you to be reasonable. The perpetrator or his insurance company may try to tell you for example to get multiple quotes. That's bollocks: they did the damage, they have no right to tell you how to fix it. Get it put right by the bike shops you habitually use. If you're unsure of your rights then visit your local CAB for free legal advice (but make sure it's from someone who actually knows what they're talking about - there's a lot of mis-advice around).
My perp whined a bit, which I ignored, especially when he learned that road bikes often cost more than the cars that run them down. I was hoping he would be stupid enough to try to excuse running a cyclist down from behind in court, but his insurance company wasn't stupid and settled in full on the last day.
I have done this before and that's how they work - if they think you're naïve they may well try it on. Even if they know you have them "bang to rights" they will settle at the last possible moment, often only once you actually issue proceedings or just before. Their job is to try to stop you, but they can't win if you're in the right. They know that, but they may take time to learn that you know it too.
So, claim your money directly from the perpetrator. If he argues, ignores you, or refuses to pay, issue proceedings against him. Assuming he has at least some assets, and assuming it was his fault, he's toast.
Note that this is way easier than getting him criminally convicted, which is a significantly more expensive and challenging process. This is easy.
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Oh, and for a small claim which this will be, you can't claim legal costs, so don't visit a solicitor as that's lost money. Try the local CAB if they run free legal advice sessions, or read up on it in the internet and do it yourself. It's actually easy, and if you are in the right (the incident was the car's fault), then you will win. And he can't claim legal costs either, which is to your advantage as the insurance company are extremely unlikely to pay to fight you.0 -
As above, don't fall for the insurance companies ruse that you must get it repaired at their approved supplier etc. You can reasonably ask that as you've bought the bike from that shop, always got it serviced there etc that you should use them for repairs. They have the right to go to court if they don't agree.0
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curium wrote:I was not a member of BC at the time as I've stated above. I've been advised that 'no win, no fee' is not an option as I had no serious injuries. Small claims court will cost me £80.
Instructing a solicitor will likely cost a lot more than £80 in order to claim £1500-£2000. Apparently even if I instructed a solicitor and he was successful, the solicitor would not be able to claim their costs back from the 3rd-party so it would have to come out of my £1500-£2000.
As I stated in my original post, I was not a member of any organisation that provides relevant insurance and 'no win, no fee' is not available to me due to no serious injuries and the relatively small amount I'm seeking to recover.
So really I'm looking for advice within the constraints of the circumstances I have described.
If you know of a solicitor that will pursue this for me for no more than £200-£300 than please let me know but otherwise it would seem that a solicitor is not an option.
Just out of interest why would a no win no fee solicitor not take this case on? Only reason I ask is I used one for an accident a few years ago (about 3) and the payout was £2,000 from the third party not including legal costs which they claimed separately. The third party admitted fault & was a pretty quick process in fairness.
I guess it will all be based on if the third party is admitting fault or not but most will talk you through the process as once they find that out will define if they will or will not help you. You can always call the T.P. insurance company to see if they know about the accident, if not they will write to their insured for his/her version of events. If it has already been reported then it is a much quicker process to follow.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
I'm told the government changed the law meaning that legal costs come out of the amount claimed for so solicitors will now not be interested unless the amount is substantial.Danlikesbikes wrote:curium wrote:I was not a member of BC at the time as I've stated above. I've been advised that 'no win, no fee' is not an option as I had no serious injuries. Small claims court will cost me £80.
Instructing a solicitor will likely cost a lot more than £80 in order to claim £1500-£2000. Apparently even if I instructed a solicitor and he was successful, the solicitor would not be able to claim their costs back from the 3rd-party so it would have to come out of my £1500-£2000.
As I stated in my original post, I was not a member of any organisation that provides relevant insurance and 'no win, no fee' is not available to me due to no serious injuries and the relatively small amount I'm seeking to recover.
So really I'm looking for advice within the constraints of the circumstances I have described.
If you know of a solicitor that will pursue this for me for no more than £200-£300 than please let me know but otherwise it would seem that a solicitor is not an option.
Just out of interest why would a no win no fee solicitor not take this case on? Only reason I ask is I used one for an accident a few years ago (about 3) and the payout was £2,000 from the third party not including legal costs which they claimed separately. The third party admitted fault & was a pretty quick process in fairness.
I guess it will all be based on if the third party is admitting fault or not but most will talk you through the process as once they find that out will define if they will or will not help you. You can always call the T.P. insurance company to see if they know about the accident, if not they will write to their insured for his/her version of events. If it has already been reported then it is a much quicker process to follow.
I'm not a solicitor though so usual disclaimers apply.0 -
THis is very useful, thank you very much.philwi wrote:I have been in that situation. I am not legally qualified.
The police are useless if the perpetrator did not draw blood, although the law is quite clear. However that's criminal stuff ... you want the the civil courts to get your costs, and fortunately that's easy.
Assuming you are in the right, and that you have have some reasonable chance of proving it (eg pictures of the scene, attendance by law officers who saw the location, witness statements), then it's easy. Don't play this game if you are not in fact innocent (for example if you were cycling on the pavement or without lights).
All I did was write a very brief summary of the event and mail it, plus a copy of my receipts, to the perpetrator. One side of A4 in clear English. Google how much time you are obliged to give them to pay up and tell them what it is, and that you'll issue proceedings without further notice should you not receive your costs in full. If you're concerned then get the letter delivered registered post.
Note that there is no obligation on you to "get three quotes", only for you to be reasonable. The perpetrator or his insurance company may try to tell you for example to get multiple quotes. That's ****: they did the damage, they have no right to tell you how to fix it. Get it put right by the bike shops you habitually use. If you're unsure of your rights then visit your local CAB for free legal advice (but make sure it's from someone who actually knows what they're talking about - there's a lot of mis-advice around).
My perp whined a bit, which I ignored, especially when he learned that road bikes often cost more than the cars that run them down. I was hoping he would be stupid enough to try to excuse running a cyclist down from behind in court, but his insurance company wasn't stupid and settled in full on the last day.
I have done this before and that's how they work - if they think you're naïve they may well try it on. Even if they know you have them "bang to rights" they will settle at the last possible moment, often only once you actually issue proceedings or just before. Their job is to try to stop you, but they can't win if you're in the right. They know that, but they may take time to learn that you know it too.
So, claim your money directly from the perpetrator. If he argues, ignores you, or refuses to pay, issue proceedings against him. Assuming he has at least some assets, and assuming it was his fault, he's toast.
Note that this is way easier than getting him criminally convicted, which is a significantly more expensive and challenging process. This is easy.
--
Oh, and for a small claim which this will be, you can't claim legal costs, so don't visit a solicitor as that's lost money. Try the local CAB if they run free legal advice sessions, or read up on it in the internet and do it yourself. It's actually easy, and if you are in the right (the incident was the car's fault), then you will win. And he can't claim legal costs either, which is to your advantage as the insurance company are extremely unlikely to pay to fight you.
I have the 3rd party's name, vehicle reg, insurance company and insurance certificate number but i have no home address.
Should I send my letter to the insurance company or is there a way of obtaining the 3rd party's address?
Thank you
(PS I will join BC)0 -
You can send it direct to the insurer, they will then contact the driver, or you can contact the Police and inform them you 'require' the details you are legally entitled to get which includes a contact address. Personally I'd bang it off to the insurers.
It will be a 'notice before action', detail what happened, why the driver is liable, and what your losses are, include copies of any receipts /estimates etc.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
What he said, on all points.
I'd go to the insurer as they're likely to be unemotional, aware of your rights, and of the expense of broken bikes. Assuming you're in the right, writing as the previous poster suggests should be all that's needed.
If it did go to court then you would have proceed against the driver, so at that point you'd need his address from the police. Keep the incident number to make that easy. Assuming you're clearly in the right and honest that's unlikely but no big deal for you.
If the insurer start to piss and moan, then assuming you have been honest, just very politely tell them that you'd rather discuss it in front of a judge. They will pay at that point, or when you file the claim; they are very unlikely to go to court unless you're being dishonest or unreasonable. You don't have to negotiate if you've been reasonable.
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Example 1: A driver ran me down from behind. The driver later started to argue that it was my fault as I'd slowed down. I went direct to his insurers, who paid up immediately in full as they knew it was an open-shut case.
Example 2: A driver damaged my car. His insurer suggested I use their repairer. I politely declined and they paid in full without further argument: it's not reasonable for them to try to dictate to you how to fix what their client broke. All you have to do is to be reasonable...0 -
Benthic wrote:
curium
If you haven't already contact a personal injury solicitor that has a specialism in dealing with claims involving cyclists. I couldn't go down this route as there was no PI claim to make. You have a documented PI claim and other losses that a solicitor should be able to pick-up on a no-win-no-fee basis. They will assess the relative liability before pursuing the vehicle insurers; the insurers will be ultimately responsible for the costs.
Leigh Day work on behalf of British Cycling. I got good free advice from Simon A. Holt & Co (aka CycleAid) before pursuing the matter myself (as above).
I hope this works out for you and you are quickly back on your bike.Boardman CX Team0 -
Just an update for this thread.
I've had a reply from the 3rd-parties solicitor in which they state that they have spoken with their insured and do not think liability will be an issue. This is good news.
I am claiming for the following:- 2009 specialized tricross sport
- endura windchill jacket
- dhb vaeon padded bib tights
- endura baabaa merino base layer
- north face rucksack
- citizen eco-drive sport chronograph watch
- gore windstopper gloves
I have given them a price based on what it would cost me to replace the item.
In their letter they have asked for an estimate for the cost of repairs to the bike or photos showing the extent and nature of the damage. They also want "documentary evidence in support of the damaged clothing" and confirmation of when the items were purchased.
I'm concerned that they may try to factor in some wear-and-tear deduction on the clothing which I thing is unfair. I should be compensated with the amount required to replace the clothing at the cost of doing so. I do not have an option nor would I want to purchase bib-tights with 6 months wear-and-tear, for example, so they should only want to know how much they cost.
The bicycle is no longer available for sale since it's 4 years old and specialized update their range annually. I have given them the price paid for it at the time £780. I don't have a receipt but I'm sure the closest bike available in specialized's range today cost more but it is complicated by changes in spec. My Tricross Sport came with carbon forks, tiagra triple front derailleur and Deore LX rear.
The whole range now has aluminium forks and only the top in the range has tiagra.
Bottom line is there is no meaningful market for second-hand items of cycle clothing, gloves, my watch or rucksack so they should just pay me the cost of buying these items new. How much should I expect for the bike given it is now a total write-off and I can no longer buy the exact bike anymore?
Cheers!0 -
Hi Curium - I had similar a few years ago. They will try to knock off some for 'wear and tear'. Go to your LBS and ask them for the new equivalent of your bike. Get a spec sheet for it and use that with the cost of said bike to show what you want as a repacement. As for the clothing - same thing. As with my jacket/bibs etc, there was 'light' usage and there was 'many' years of life left in all the items you are claiming for. Apply this rule in all areas of the claim and if they continue to prevaricate - give a time limit of 28 days from the date on your letter to the issue of procedings... that will concentrate their collective mind...0
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It sounds like standard insurance company "let's try to minimize our costs" stuff. The last one I dealt with seemed to be suggesting I reversed my bike under the bumper of their driver's car.... needless to say I didn't get mad, just even.curium wrote:In their letter they have asked for an estimate for the cost of repairs to the bike or photos showing the extent and nature of the damage. They also want "documentary evidence in support of the damaged clothing" and confirmation of when the items were purchased.
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I'm concerned that they may try to factor in some wear-and-tear deduction on the clothing which I thing is unfair.
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How much should I expect for the bike given it is now a total write-off and I can no longer buy the exact bike anymore?
I would get your local bike shop to give you a quote for repair or replacement - tell them to be honest and to quote for a similar quality replacement machine. Take a photo of the broken bike and if you can be bothered keep the bits just in case. That's your replacement cost. If the insurers don't like it, offer to discuss it in front of the judge. There's no onus on you to get multiple quotes or to buy from Halfords or anything else, other than to be reasonable.
You're looking for damages, not making an insurance claim, so I don't think "wear and tear" is relevant. In any case *they* would have to prove the age of your clothes in court, not the other way around. It would be absurd to require us all to keep receipts for the eventuality that we're run down, so that's irrelevant. They should just pay reasonable costs, or try to persuade a judge that you're taking the Mick.
Evidence-wise, I'd probably send them copies of the receipts for the new stuff, and perhaps some photos of the scene showing the gear they're replacing, but I'd be reluctant to waste much more of your time arguing with them: you may as well do that in court. You could offer for them to visit you to examine the damaged stuff. If it was me I'd at the same time give them the "notice before action" words, and suggest that your honesty is really best examined by an impartial judge in the County Court. If you're honest, you've nothing to fear... and they know they'll lose if it goes there.0
