Enve 3.4, Enve 6.7 or Easton EC90 Aero (56mm)???

Trihardest · February 2013

Hi, I've just some $$ freed up from selling some bike parts sitting in the garage and thinking hard to purchase a set of wheels. I don't need them but would like to have a very good set of wheels to train, do some road race and triathlon few time (less than 5) a year. I don't have tonnes of money to burn, but willing to bite the bullet to get great quality and not worry about it few months (or a year) down the track having to replace the wheels. The wheels I'm looking at are ENVE 3.4, ENVE 6.7 (both w/ CK hubs) and EC 90 (56mm) Aero; all carbon clinchers. I've considered the Zipp 404 (same price as Enve) but got steered away as they looked and sounds fragile from people I spoke to. Two different shop rep even dissuade to go Zipp even though the stock them and point me to their Enve stock. I don't want a set of wheels cost thousands of $$ and only see daylight in perfect (sunny and windless) condition. I want something that are very good and lasts as this will be wheelset for the next 5 years or more.

Background, I'm 1.75m, 70kg, sprinter built with reasonable bike handling skills. I currently owned 2 sets of DT R1.1 training wheels and a Shimano C35 CL. I can handle the C35 without much trouble in very windy days going down steep hills (17% +). Done a few small tris and one half IM in very windy condition (35+km/h) with my Reynolds Assault (46mm) i used to own. I didn't have too much trouble handling the bike in that condition. I often ride around the hills so braking is important. I don't often ride in rain unless I got caught out. The area I ride is rarely still, mostly breezy (5-20km/h) and sometime windy (20- 35+km/h) so that is in the consideration as well. One of the shop rep dissuade me on the Enve 6.7 and reckon I am better served with Enve 3.4. He also said if I want the best, get Enve. If money is limited get Easton which he stocks as well. The cost of Easton is 2/3 of Enve, so... is Enve that much better. Enve and Chris King has 5 years warranty on rim an hub, respectively. Plus, lifetime 50% of crash replacement on rims. Zipp 1 yr and Easton 2 years.

So... here are the questions:
1. how is the braking on Easton and Enve compare to aluminum braking?
2. Should I go against the shop rep’s recommendation with Enve 6.7 instead of Enve 3.4, or Easton?
3. Any reports on durability of these wheels in ALL conditions?
4. How does the stability of Easton and Enve 6.7 stack up in windy condition against Reynolds Assault or Similar 46mm V shape rims.
5. Anything other comments to help me make the decision?

Or should I save my money and tuck them under my pillow???

Thanks in advance.

ShutUpLegs · February 2013

Have you considered some Mavics, Cosmic Carbones SLR with Exalith braking :?:

inseine · February 2013

Seems like we all want deep section carbon wheels, but need regular box section clinchers! Regular wheels tick all the boxes, with good braking, no cross wind issues and durable. Bit like saying you want a Ferrari, but what's the fuel consumption like!
I'd go for the ENVE 3.4s though. They're very light and good in cross winds, plus they're aero. Reliability will depend a bit on who builds them, but they should be ok and they'll be easy to fix.
The Mavics are the worst option, and I have a pair!

ugo.santalucia · February 2013

You have got to be careful about rumors... Unles you know someone who specifically has an issue with the Zipp, don't just buy into anything you read on the web...
Zipp rims are widely used in the PRO peloton even for very demanding races on cobbles... My money would be on the 303.
If you overcome the fear of tubulars, that is the way to go, rims are stronger, yet lighter... No issues with overheating and once you find your pads, braking in dry conditions is just as good...

For that money, clinchers are an expensive compromise

Grill · February 2013

I'd go Enve 3.4 with Alchemy hubs as first choice and Reynolds 46 second. I have no confidence in Easton wheels as I've heard too many conflicting reports.

ugo.santalucia · February 2013

Otherwise do like PRO teams... get the Zipp rims and have them built with some durable hubs...

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/zipp-303-fi ... 285v4.html

Trihardest · February 2013

Thanks for all the comments and recommendation. I did seriously looked at Zipp, but steered away from it as I want a set of wheels that is durable and strong manufacturer support, which from all report I've heard in person and online is 50/50.

I've not considered mavics as they are not the best at crosswind, but I do know that their latest braking surface is among the best. As I mentioned above, the set of wheels will be on road racing and triathlon duties.

So, for the money I've worked long and hard for, I would like to purchase something very good and even bite the bullet to pay a bit more for quality, durability, and great manufacturer backing of their product especially this will be performance (bling) LAST wheelset for 5+ years...

Has anyone tried the carbon clinchers Enve 3.4, Enve 6.7, Zipps 303, Zipp 404 and Easton EC90 Aero to comment their performance, braking and durability on flat, hills, mountains, crosswinds, rain, etc?

Sir Velo · February 2013

Not sure how much the following helps, but I have some 303s and 404s and have tried the deeper Enve (thanks to my daughter's boyfriend having a set).

All three sets are very good; as Ugo I indicate the hubs on the Zipps are probably not as good as the Chris King on the Enve's and I had to replace the front one on the 303s as it split. But having said that there are the oldet set and certainly over 5 years.

Even though the front hub needed replacing the 303s are probably my favourite, very light (tubs), not affected by cross wind, quite aero and really spin up fast.

As none of the three sets have actually failed (with the exception of the hub) I can't say that one is stronger than the other but would have no hesitation in choosing Zipp again. I think Ugo's advice is very good about getting Zipp rims and having them build up with custom hubs. That would then be a very nice set of wheels.

SV

thegreatdivide · February 2013

As ugo has already stated – 303’s can take a battering at Paris Roubaix (with Boonen laying down the power) so if that’s not a plus point for durability...

I’ve not seen a single review (i.e. a well written article, not forum speculation) of a 303 or 404 FC where it says they’re fragile. Would be interested to read one. Can you post a link please?

ugo.santalucia · February 2013

thegreatdivide wrote:

As ugo has already stated – 303’s can take a battering at Paris Roubaix (with Boonen laying down the power) so if that’s not a plus point for durability...

I’ve not seen a single review (i.e. a well written article, not forum speculation) of a 303 or 404 FC where it says they’re fragile. Would be interested to read one. Can you post a link please?

Bear in mind Boonen uses the tubular version, which is inherently stronger and I am not sure the wheels are the factory ones... I have the feeling they build custom on the Zipp rims

danlikesbikes · February 2013

Trihardest wrote:

I've considered the Zipp 404 (same price as Enve) but got steered away as they looked and sounds fragile from people I spoke to.

Widely used in cobbled classic races and cyclocross races, so whilst often offered as free to pro-teams as part of sponsorship I know quote a few rides who race on 303 rims for both types of races and describe their Zipp's as hard as nails.

spasypaddy · February 2013

I have the 6.7s on CK hubs. They are amazing.

HOWEVER if you live in a hilly place and the timetrials/tris aren't your main thing then get the 3.4s

1. how is the braking on Easton and Enve compare to aluminum braking?
The braking on the Enves is top notch, i was genuinely suprised at how good it is, not far off alu braking

2. Should I go against the shop rep’s recommendation with Enve 6.7 instead of Enve 3.4, or Easton?
See above.

3. Any reports on durability of these wheels in ALL conditions?
Used my Enves in the wet, in strong crosswinds, and in the dry. Absolutely no problem keeping it in check in any of those conditions even on tri bars.

4. How does the stability of Easton and Enve 6.7 stack up in windy condition against Reynolds Assault or Similar 46mm V shape rims.
Dunno, not used the other wheels. However in strong crosswinds on tri bars my 6.7s didn't flinch and inch across the road. absolutely rock steady.

5. Anything other comments to help me make the decision?
See above.

jewbs · February 2013

Hi, I have a set of enve 45's on dt swiss 240 hubs, i know a little different to the envies you're interested in but they are pure quality, really well made and ride so well. I've not had any braking problems, they are clincher version, in fact i don't notice much difference between them and my krysrium elites. in an emergency they stopped me pretty damn quick when i had to avoid hitting a deer!! In strong winds i've found them to handle really well again i think better than my elites, i think this is because mavic use such large flat bladed spokes that act a bit like a fan in a wind.
I love my enves and can highly recommend them. my only gripe is that i use long inner tube valves that tend to rattle on the rims when you ride so trying to find a way of stopping that rather than using valve extenders.

petemadoc · February 2013

my only gripe is that i use long inner tube valves that tend to rattle on the rims when you ride so trying to find a way of stopping that rather than using valve extenders.

Electrical tape?

racingcondor · February 2013

If you're more of a sprinter and want them for TT's and Tri then I'd go Enve 6.7 every time.

Personally I think they're rather expensive for what you get (especially at the UK rrp) but I've heard very little that's bad about them (i.e. if they fail it's generally because of user errors like 16 hole rims under 20st guys riding cobbles) and from what I've read Zipp and Enve have pretty much solved the over heating problems that carbon clinchers can suffer from.

Monty Dog · February 2013

Everyone I know with Zipps has had problems - in general they are underbuilt and are very succeptible to impact damage / cracking particularly for heavier riders - this is real world road racing on Surrey Roads where you have little choice on whether you hit a pothole or not. What the pros ride often bears little relation to what you get down the LBS - P-Rx is a huge marketing exercise for bike kit companies and they have the benefit of a following car to deal with problems - not a trek to your LBS and an indeterminable wait. My mate broke both 303 rims (tubulars) on a misaligned expansion joint - bang-bang and both rims were toast. If doing TTs/triathlon, it's even harder on rims.
If you want something durable then Enve or Campagnolo / Fulcrum or Corima seem to have the best reputation. The guys over on Weightweenies have discussed this at length.

racingcondor · February 2013

I seem to remember that Fast Forward get high marks for durability as well (although they will be significantly less advanced in other ways than Corima, Zipp or Enve).

I've got to say that the UK's excellent line in pot holes is the main reason I would never buy carbon clinchers. I've dinged an Alu rim on a hole that wasn't properly called, think I'd be a little more miffed if it had cracked a £750 Enve rim... Tubs are at least less suceptable.

I admit I'm a cheapscate though, doubt I'll ever spend more than £150 on a rim even if I treat myself to some deep carbon tubs.

jewbs · February 2013

PeteMadoc wrote:

my only gripe is that i use long inner tube valves that tend to rattle on the rims when you ride so trying to find a way of stopping that rather than using valve extenders.

Electrical tape?

yeah i've used electrical tape but it does wear after a while and the rattle comes back so i want to try and find some form of rubber grommet i can use on the valves

thegreatdivide · February 2013

Monty Dog wrote:

Everyone I know with Zipps has had problems - in general they are underbuilt and are very succeptible to impact damage / cracking particularly for heavier riders - this is real world road racing on Surrey Roads where you have little choice on whether you hit a pothole or not. What the pros ride often bears little relation to what you get down the LBS - P-Rx is a huge marketing exercise for bike kit companies and they have the benefit of a following car to deal with problems - not a trek to your LBS and an indeterminable wait. My mate broke both 303 rims (tubulars) on a misaligned expansion joint - bang-bang and both rims were toast. If doing TTs/triathlon, it's even harder on rims.

Are these Firecrest wheels? I doubt it.

You can’t get more ‘real world’ than Roubaix and Flanders and Zipp kitted teams didn’t have a single wheel failure in the 2012 races. Do you honestly think that when Quicksetp’s aim is to get their main man over the line first they’re going to say ‘we’ll uses Zipps because of the marketing potential’. No - Quickstep used 303 FC’s because they were tough as nails. FWIW, the teams that use Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels off the cobbles use Nemesis on them. Teams have an option of the wheels they can use.

ugo.santalucia · February 2013

thegreatdivide wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Everyone I know with Zipps has had problems - in general they are underbuilt and are very succeptible to impact damage / cracking particularly for heavier riders - this is real world road racing on Surrey Roads where you have little choice on whether you hit a pothole or not. What the pros ride often bears little relation to what you get down the LBS - P-Rx is a huge marketing exercise for bike kit companies and they have the benefit of a following car to deal with problems - not a trek to your LBS and an indeterminable wait. My mate broke both 303 rims (tubulars) on a misaligned expansion joint - bang-bang and both rims were toast. If doing TTs/triathlon, it's even harder on rims.

Are these Firecrest wheels? I doubt it.

You can’t get more ‘real world’ than Roubaix and Flanders and Zipp kitted teams didn’t have a single wheel failure in the 2012 races. Do you honestly think that when Quicksetp’s aim is to get their main man over the line first they’re going to say ‘we’ll uses Zipps because of the marketing potential’. No - Quickstep used 303 FC’s because they were tough as nails. FWIW, the teams that use Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels off the cobbles use Nemesis on them. Teams have an option of the wheels they can use.

True, they also use 27 mm FMB tubulars at 70 PSI that absorb impact a hell of a lot better than 22 mm tyres people pump up to 120 PSI...
We always tend to underestimate the role of the tyre...

Trihardest · February 2013

Thanks guys for all your input. Now, I'm swinging back to ENve 3.4 with CK hubs as they have the aerodynamics of conventional 50-60mm V shaped rims but shallow rim to cope with cross wind. The other bonus is that 3.4 is ~140g lighter than Enve 3.4. I could get Enve 3.4 at ~ GBP 1900 (USD2900). May haggle with the supplier to lower a bit more.

or... should I get Enve 6.7?? Arrgh... just make up my mind now!!!!

Trihardest · February 2013

Oh, I had never considered tubular, too much hassle and can't be bothered carrying a spare tube. I've always wanting clinchers.

In regards to Zipp 303 used in Roubaix, the pros never used clinchers. On top of that I don't get gears handed to me for free and neither do I have a support vehicle. I'm staying away from Zipp atm.

spasypaddy · February 2013

what bike are these wheels going to be for?

what wheels do you currently have on your stealth?

suddons · February 2013

I have ENVE 3.4 Clinchers to CK.

They spin up to speed very quickly – I ride most weekends at 250M-400M above sea level
& it is crazy windy allot of the time - & I can honestly say there is a predictability to there
Movements during strong cross winds, Instead in blowing all over the shop they tend
To move in predictable stages– I thought ENVE’s “index of movement” was just marketing bollocks
But for me they have been great.

I also weight 63KG.

Plus they look cool as fuck.

guyw1lson · February 2013

+1 for Enve 3.4

I had the same quandary of 3.4 or 6.7 and I went with the 3.4 Tubs. They are light, predictable, accelerate well and are nicely aero. They are a really versatile wheel set and considering the warranty you get it sounds like they would suite your purposes. Go for it!

Trihardest · March 2013

The wheels I'm considering are for all duties. Road racing and triathlon and occassional training in good weather. The wheels will be on any of my three bikes, Ridley, Cervelo and Planet X.

Currently I've got a set of old hybrid 202 and 303 powertap on my PX Stealth. they are only for training purposes only as they are heavy. I've got 7900 C35 Cl and 2 custom built DT 1.1s with DT/Ultegra hubs atm.

Either Enve 3.4 or 6.7 will be a significant upgrade from that I have atm.

ugo.santalucia · March 2013

Trihardest wrote:

Either Enve 3.4 or 6.7 will be a significant upgrade from that I have atm.

Cosmetically at least... the Enve tribal logo is one to have as a penis tattoo...

spasypaddy · March 2013

yes we understand ugo, if its got less than 64 spokes and not an aluminium rim of no deeper than 24mm you will slate it

ugo.santalucia · March 2013

spasypaddy wrote:

yes we understand ugo, if its got less than 64 spokes and not an aluminium rim of no deeper than 24mm you will slate it

Not at all...
just, seen what the OP already has, I don't really see the significant upgrade over those, other than the rather tasteful logos

Enve 3.4, Enve 6.7 or Easton EC90 Aero (56mm)???

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