Turbo trainers, a benefit for long-distance training?!
lastant
Posts: 526
Right, I've pretty much read this forum searching for results on this but I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing as to whether I would actually benefit from getting a turbo trainer in preparation for this summer's LEL.
The benefits I can see are that actually getting on the bike and going is much quicker, and there's no stopping and starting for lights/drivers/whatever - the drawbacks are obviously that it can get mind-numbingly boring and I guess that you can get a bit 'pampered' having not had to go out in whatever the weather's doing. Set up would have to be in the flat which is a first-floor premises, I am a bit wary of noise but have singled out the Elite Chrono Fluid as possibly the quietest turbo out there?
I'm up in the Highgate area so any journey out can feature some sort of climbing - would I be better off just getting on the bike and going out or is there a benefit to picking up a turbo trainer and adding those sessions into the already daily commute (shortest distance c.10mi. each way, but could 'happily' extend it to twenty reasonably realistically...certainly inbound)?
The benefits I can see are that actually getting on the bike and going is much quicker, and there's no stopping and starting for lights/drivers/whatever - the drawbacks are obviously that it can get mind-numbingly boring and I guess that you can get a bit 'pampered' having not had to go out in whatever the weather's doing. Set up would have to be in the flat which is a first-floor premises, I am a bit wary of noise but have singled out the Elite Chrono Fluid as possibly the quietest turbo out there?
I'm up in the Highgate area so any journey out can feature some sort of climbing - would I be better off just getting on the bike and going out or is there a benefit to picking up a turbo trainer and adding those sessions into the already daily commute (shortest distance c.10mi. each way, but could 'happily' extend it to twenty reasonably realistically...certainly inbound)?
0
Comments
-
I prescribe 20 reps a day of Swains Lane and any of the other Highgate Hills and a dose of MTFU.
ITB will be along in a moment to tell you the benefits of turbo training."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills0 -
My son uses an Elite Chrono Fluid and I can vouch for its quietness.
I never use it. I think maybe you can do more stuctured training on a turbo and, if the weather bothers you, then maybe it's not a bad ideaROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I got a Kurt Kenetic for when the weather was too bad to go out.
I feel as if I get a harder work out in one hour on the turbo than I would in hours on the road but it probably only feels that way.
If I had the time and the weather, I wouldn't bother with a turbo at all. I find it useful only for when I lack time or weather.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
If you are going to go with an indoor trainer, go with rollers with a resistance unit.
So much more engaging than a turbo trainer and quieter too. It may only be anecdotal but I thing rollers have massiveely improved my bike balance and consistent for pedalling action as well.0 -
I've got a bit more time to answer.
My son uses the turbo upstairs (in the living room above the living room - Canadian houses for you). There IS some noise transmitted through the floor though the upstairs floor is wooden (with a thin carpet/mat) and it's not concrete just normal wooden joists. It's not bad but there's some "whirring".
What are you looking to achieve? If it's aerobic fitness to tackle climbs on your route faster, then I think the turbo will be fine. If it's endurance/stamina, then, unless you're prepared to spend hours on the thing, I'd have thought it would be less usefulROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I use a turbo basically as a threat to myself - "get out there or you'll have to sit on the flipping turbo!"
Seriously though, turbos do have some great uses for improvement in most areas of cycling fitness and a good, regular, interval session can really bring good results.
In terms of training for endurance, unless you're prepared to sit on the thing for long periods at a moderate level of effort, then it won't do much speciifcally for that. But clearly if you are stronger and fitter, then the endurance side of it will come easier. I know the whole 'winter miles for summer smiles' thing and it does matter to get your miles in (again, a turbo won't help too much directly with that) but shorter more intense sessions at this time of year work well for me (laps around Richmond Park, hill repeats etc.). I wish I had the drive to use the turbo more for this - but I don't!
Anyway - they have their place.
See you in Loughton!0 -
meanredspider wrote:What are you looking to achieve? If it's aerobic fitness to tackle climbs on your route faster, then I think the turbo will be fine. If it's endurance/stamina, then, unless you're prepared to spend hours on the thing, I'd have thought it would be less useful
Hmm...I'm not really sure but tackling climbs faster is definitely something that I'd like to get better at - although living in and around Highgate is giving me hills to climb on a daily basis. The main thing I could do with doing between now and July 28th is shifting about 15kg if I'm being brutally honest!
Thanks for all the replies so far, it's nice to get some 'real' examples from those that have had experience with them.0 -
Caution, long, factual training based post follows. You may want to skip it if you're expecting some witty response.
It comes down to what you're trying to achieve. The whole process of training is about stimulating certain features of your physiology in order to generate a response from your body. For example, if you want to increase your biceps size, you do bicep curls of 8-10 reps by 3, at an appropriate weight. Cycling is no different but there are different physiological systems in play for different aspects of cycling, e.g. sprinting, time-trialing, long distance riding.
Just like lifting weights, the whole point of training is to try and focus on the thing you want to improve so that you stimulate your body to adapt and improve that response. Being on a turbo trainer is like being in the weights room at the gym, you can focus specifically on the thing you want to improve, so if you've only got an hour and want to improve your threshold power to help with time-trialing, you could do 2*20min intervals at threshold. You could do those on the road too, but weather plus other factors when you're actually riding mean it will be harder or take longer to get those 2 quality 20 minute intervals in.
Your problem is that you want to improve your endurance riding, things like encouraging your body to source a greater % of its calorific needs from fat stores instead of from glycogen so that you can ride further more easily. What's the best way of stimulating your body to do this? By doing long rides in that endurance zone. Unfortunately this is incredibly tedious on the turbo and you're much better off going out for a decent ride instead!
An alternative view is that increasing your FTP (maximum power for 1 hour) increases the max power output at other intervals beyond 1 hour. So if you increase your FTP by 40w, you'll probably see a broadly similar increase to your 4 hour max power output too. Why does this matter? Because it means you can go faster for longer, or that you can go much further for the same perceived effort. Shorter, more intense intervals will stimulate other responses like your anaerobic capacity, which might be useful in a crit race or when sprinting up hills but will be less beneficial to your ability to ride 100+ miles.
In summary, I'd suggest that if you want to improve your long distance riding, go out there and spend time in the saddle at the level of intensity you will be at for your long ride. If you're time constrained or the weather's really bad and you have no alternative, then doing longer (> 10 mins) threshold and sweet-spot intervals will definitely help, but remember, they won't give you the best adaptations that you might need.FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
Yeah - I actually find my commute (30+ miles a day) has given me really good endurance. My ride through Ireland, the Etape Caledonia, and our ride to Livingstone have shown that - I can chunk along averaging 17-18mph no problem. What I lack more than anything is the aerobic capacity up steep hills (at least compared to my fellow Highland riders) so, if I was going to use a turbo, that's what I would use it forROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
-
Wrath Rob and meanredspider, together you've answered the nagging doubt in my mind! Thanks for the thoughts, Wrath Rob in particular, wasn't 'long' at all and made perfect sense.
Now, what to do with the c.£150 you've 'saved' me...
0 -
I'm really hoping consistent hard winter sessions of 45-60 mins several times a week slowly building up to more dry real rides as the weather improves, then a couple of months in start back on the hill climbs, all the while pushing hard turbo sessions.Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
itboffin wrote:I'm really hoping consistent hard winter sessions of 45-60 mins several times a week slowly building up to more dry real rides as the weather improves, then a couple of months in start back on the hill climbs, all the while pushing hard turbo sessions.
Boffo - IME I'd advise against using UK Hill climbs as training for the Marmotte. I did nearly all my Alps training last year by going for long rides on flattish routes and pushing hard (ok and throwing in a cheeky trip to Cyprus). I reckon pushing hard on the flat (into a headwind if poss!) for a good hour or more (without respite) is far better training for the mountains than doing reps of short sharp UK Hills. Get a load of 70/80/100 milers under your belt. Throw in 2 Turbo or 2 x 20 milers mid week and you'll be laughing...- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
Its all about putting out a level power for the duration of the climb. UK hills are short and sharp so its hard to simulate a Euro climb as you go up, rest on the descent and then climb again. As IP says, an hour pushing hard its better simulation. Into the wind is great outdoors, or an hour on the turbo would let you focus your workout on the right area too. It would just be a little more boring. Especially when its light and the weather is better.Il Principe wrote:itboffin wrote:I'm really hoping consistent hard winter sessions of 45-60 mins several times a week slowly building up to more dry real rides as the weather improves, then a couple of months in start back on the hill climbs, all the while pushing hard turbo sessions.
Boffo - IME I'd advise against using UK Hill climbs as training for the Marmotte. I did nearly all my Alps training last year by going for long rides on flattish routes and pushing hard (ok and throwing in a cheeky trip to Cyprus). I reckon pushing hard on the flat (into a headwind if poss!) for a good hour or more (without respite) is far better training for the mountains than doing reps of short sharp UK Hills. Get a load of 70/80/100 milers under your belt. Throw in 2 Turbo or 2 x 20 milers mid week and you'll be laughing...FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
I hear you and its defo good advise but what would you class as a short sharp climb, we have lots down this way several miles long steep with 16-20% sectionsRule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
itboffin wrote:I hear you and its defo good advise but what would you class as a short sharp climb, we have lots down this way several miles long steep with 16-20% sections
If you can climb it in less than 10/15 mins or so then I'd class it as short and sharp. Ultimately the Marmotte is going to be about endurance as much as anything else, so endurance & weight loss will be the two things I focus on when I eventually get round to entering!- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
IP, do whatever you did to get in the shape you were last summer and you'd be in the top 5%Il Principe wrote:itboffin wrote:I hear you and its defo good advise but what would you class as a short sharp climb, we have lots down this way several miles long steep with 16-20% sections
If you can climb it in less than 10/15 mins or so then I'd class it as short and sharp. Ultimately the Marmotte is going to be about endurance as much as anything else, so endurance & weight loss will be the two things I focus on when I eventually get round to entering!
2-3hrs non-stop tempo rides are the dogs for getting in shape. I must do some of those.0 -
I was thinking hill repeats of this, they use on of the climbs on the magnificat http://connect.garmin.com/activity/250790226
There's about 6 different ways up to the top and at about 1000ft it takes 30 mins to do the 10 miles from my house, back down along the valley floor 4 miles and back up one of the other sides, that sounds like alpine training to me.Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
Wrath Rob wrote:Caution, long, factual training based post follows. You may want to skip it if you're expecting some witty response.
...
I agree with much of what Rob says and yes it is true that "fitness" to do long distance rides is down to hours in the saddle. I mean "fitness" here in the sense of "able to do the job". There is no short cut to a hardened backside.
However, if you take "fitness" in another way, the more specialised "aerobic fitness" that is used to make the bike power along then there is some point in turbo trainer based work
What most coaches believe is that if you lift your high end fitness- the amount of power generated at full effort - then your low end fitness will increase too. So the idea is that you do short bursts of training to stimulate your high end maximal output and this will drag up your "long steady distance" effort power.
To make this into an LEL context, you will spend several days at 50% or less of your max effort pedalling along. If you have increased your top end power output, then your power output at the lower end will also be increased. So you will go faster for the same low end effort. And faster means more time to sleep.
Here's a link to a training plan which explains this idea in more detail
http://www.ultracycling.com/sections/ar ... aining.php0 -
To add my 2c. For me, having a set of rollers (I find the turbo too mind numbing) means the difference between some saddle time and zero saddle time. In this case I think it is a boon.
My schedule lately has meant long hours working, getting back late and only having the off half hour or hour here and there. With the rollers I can just pull on a pair of shorts, grab my shoes and then do a nice session and then still be able to just get off - have a shower and get on with things. By comparison, I know that there is just about no way I'd be pulling on all the foul weather gear for a short ride in the middle of the night!
The way I figure it, some riding is better than none.David
Engineered Bicycles0
