Average speed...and cadence

surfatwork · December 2012

I am relatively new to road biking. My GPS tells me that my average speed over a 15-20mile ride is about 11-12mph, riding an old MTB (not a road bike). I dont have a cadence monitor, but calculated my average cadence to be somewhere between 70 and 85 (used http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed), which seems to be about reasonable.
So how come a lot of riders here report average speeds of 20mph and above? Aren't road bike gear ratios usually higher than MTB gear ratios? which would suggest that people are pedalling at incredible rpm - or am I getting it all wrong?

elderone · December 2012

From what understand and try to do is keep a similar cadence in what ever gear your in at the time.So on the flat in the big ring 20mph is quite easy.Now add hills and undulating roads and speeds go down so your on the small ring and keeping the same cadence,usually about 90rpm seems average.
Personally on steep hills 90rpm is way to high for me even on the big gear at the back and small at the front.

kentphil · December 2012

Doesn't the amount of power you put through the cranks have an effect too?

simon_masterson · December 2012

Gearing-wise it depends on the MTB, but in general this is just a matter of strength and fitness, followed by aerodynamics and bike fit (given that some MTBs are decidedly unsuitable for riding predominantly seated and pedalling hard continuously) The general advice to road cyclists is to aim for cadences a bit higher than yours as stated (though I don't have a cadence sensor either), but some dispute the value of higher cadence.

But don't get hung up on average speed. On some courses an average speed of 17mph would be extremely impressive indeed, whereas on others the bar would be at more like 23-27mph. Even if you only use it to monitor your own progress, the single number of average speed doesn't particularly well represent those that make it up: Improving hill climbing speed and the pace you can comfortably sustain (etc etc etc) are what you need to focus on.

charlie_potatoes · December 2012

surfatwork wrote:

I am relatively new to road biking. My GPS tells me that my average speed over a 15-20mile ride is about 11-12mph, riding an old MTB (not a road bike). I dont have a cadence monitor, but calculated my average cadence to be somewhere between 70 and 85 (used http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed), which seems to be about reasonable.
So how come a lot of riders here report average speeds of 20mph and above? Aren't road bike gear ratios usually higher than MTB gear ratios? which would suggest that people are pedalling at incredible rpm - or am I getting it all wrong?

A road bike is a lot more efficient than a MTB. Particularly a lightweight road bike. In my experience it is worth at least 3 mph average. 20 mph average is a lot easier to achieve when riding in a group. Solo riding in winter is a different proposition. Also, as mentioned above, much depends on the course that you are riding.
Many, but not all, of the average speeds that are quoted on forums are exaggerated.

I have found that working on increasing cadence has helped me a lot as I can maintain a higher speed by increasing cadence as my legs tire. I regularly get beaten by a someone with a much lower cadence though. My cadence is a lot less on a climb.

As a relatively new rider you probably have a lot more improvement to come and the best way to do this is to ride more (sorry for stating the obvious).

nolight · December 2012

surfatwork wrote:

I am relatively new to road biking. My GPS tells me that my average speed over a 15-20mile ride is about 11-12mph, riding an old MTB (not a road bike). I dont have a cadence monitor, but calculated my average cadence to be somewhere between 70 and 85 (used http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed), which seems to be about reasonable.
So how come a lot of riders here report average speeds of 20mph and above? Aren't road bike gear ratios usually higher than MTB gear ratios? which would suggest that people are pedalling at incredible rpm - or am I getting it all wrong?

According to the chart 87rpm on 50x17 (medium gear for road bike) = 20mph, it is indeed easy, so what is so incredible about that?

Mikey23 · December 2012

My average speed from my rides totalling 2000 miles in the last 6 months is about 13 mph. I live in Cornwall and have 50 to 100 feet of climb per mile. I am fit and in my 60s. On the flat I am considerably quicker but there isn't much. I can spin at 80 to 90 in the gym and do about 20mph if I'm pushing.

thegreatdivide · December 2012

If you live in a place with no hills, no wind and smooth roads, then a sustained 20mph is achievable for a fit rider over an average distance. If, like a lot of people in the UK, you live in an area with hills, wind and sh1t roads you'll be hard pressed to pull an average of 20mph unless you're riding in a group.

Example of a Pro on a training run - Laurens ten Dam rode 59 miles yesterday at an average of 19.4mph - and he's a frickin machine!

teisetrotter · December 2012

Only time I can average 20mph is on a flat calm day on a very nearly flat course and I am relatively new to this. I did cycle from Stanstead Airport to my house in South London at that average on a day like that. But it also took two days to recover.

As you climb the cycling ranks this sort of average is easily doable. We have roughly four levels of club runs down over the north downs and they average roughly 13, 15, 18 and scary race pace. On those rides with 4 or so good climbs 15 is my group and that is tough for me.

rich164h · December 2012

thegreatdivide wrote:

If you live in a place with no hills, no wind and smooth roads, then a sustained 20mph is achievable for a fit rider over an average distance. If, like a lot of people in the UK, you live in an area with hills, wind and sh1t roads you'll be hard pressed to pull an average of 20mph unless you're riding in a group.

Example of a Pro on a training run - Laurens ten Dam rode 59 miles yesterday at an average of 19.4mph - and he's a frickin machine!

That's not quite telling the whole story though. Averaging 20mph is absolutely achievable to anyone that's reasonably fit, but the variable that dictates this is over what length of time we are talking. As a fairly fit 35 year old I can average those speeds for up to an hour (even over undulating terrain) but beyond that there's just no way. The pro example quoted above shows that nicely, to average nearly 20mph for 3 hours is a huge effort and a million miles away from what I can do. Just looking at the speed figure is pretty meaningless without understanding the context.

surfatwork · December 2012

Thanks, people. feel much better now and have a better idea of where I should be heading. If I understand the above correctly, 12mph on a MTB would probably translate into 14mph on a roadbike. That's reasonable for a beginner and as I improve my cadence and stamina, my average should inch up. Averaging 15mph over a relatively long ride (~3hrs) on undulating terrain seems to be a decent performance.
I recently bought a road bike and realized the significant difference in effort between that and the MTB - have only done a couple of short rides on it because I am not yet comfortable on it and the weather's shite.

jgsi · December 2012

OP, some of those proclaiming 20mph + averages as a matter of course are probably living in a world all of their very own..... so don't fret about it
you can cop my Strava logged rides over this year since April and you may be able to pick a few where, I have had to work very very.. very hard to ride in the 20's.. and usually when the incentive is money in an envelope.
My training rides on the road, are ALWAYS sub 20.

Pross · December 2012

I think the OP got a bit confused. Road bikes do have higher gearing but higher gearing means you have to do a lower cadence for the same speed (I think you were assuming the opposite?).

As for the average speeds you see quoted on here, well in many cases that is a bit like the weight of a fish caught by an angler

surfatwork · December 2012

Pross wrote:

higher gearing means you have to do a lower cadence for the same speed

You are absolutely right - I did get confused there.

centimani · December 2012

Well, not having started riding till I was 40 plus, perhaps I missed the ability to ride at 20 mph for up to an hour...I wish :shock:
Cycled for ten years since I was 42. Always been lean and relatively fit, used to ride up to circa 150 miles a week, always at nearly full tilt, I never ride any other way. Distances from 20 to 80 miles per ride, and at best, I could average 18 mph over say 40 miles solo riding..at very best. To sustain 20 mph on the flat take an awful awful lot of effort, I had to work freeking hard to achieve 18 mph average. If I could have sustained 20 on the flat with no wind for an hour, my average would have been much higher.
Yes, you can do 20 pn the flat, but to sustain it takes a real real hard effort...as a beginner at 40 odd up to my 50s.
Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but in 10 years averaging say 16 mph over 50 mile rides, it's very very rare I get overtaken. It's a bummer when you do, puts it in perspective.
Don't know how old OP is, but I hope he's in his 20s or30s if he want to sustain 20 on the flat in the first year.

centimani · December 2012

Cadence is a funny one, it seems counterproductive at first to spin, but your legs do adapt and you improve. I used to mash along in a high gear, pushing along at speed. My knees used to let me know. Then I started working towards a cadence of around 90, it seems weird at first...now I spin along at say 17 mph with relative ease...and no sore knees.

ForumNewbie · December 2012

I have just bought a training DVD and it says you should aim for a regular cadence of 90rpm. As you get stronger and fitter you should be able to maintain that cadence in higher gears. I don't currently have a cadence sensor (although I'm getting one at Xmas), but I know my cadence is currently much less than that.

I assume that even if I was to up my cadence to 90rpm, initially I would probably still only manage my 14/15 mph. Stronger and fitter riders may also average the same 90rpm cadence, but the point is that they will be maintaining that cadence using highers gears than me so their average speed will be higher.

cycleclinic · December 2012

The only way to determine avaerage cadance unless you are a human metronome is with a cadance monitor. It is the best thing you can have in a computor. More useful than a speed read out.

On my road ride I will average 13-22mph depeding on what road bike I am using II have four) what the weather is doing, how hard I try and if I am TT or club ride. My cadance is normally a 70 average. Learing to spin is good thing and the OP should try it. I will often be in a 39-15T gear spinning at 100 cadance while in a group. I used to find riding at 20 mph a struggle but since I have been doing long sunday rides I am finding I can keep that up while leading the group. Then I head back in the group for a bit of shelter. Group riding really does help if the groupo idsfast.

Get a cadance computor and aim for average if your average is 80 or so then good keep it up and get a road bike for road work and try and keep that cadance.

surfatwork · December 2012

centimani wrote:

Don't know how old OP is, but I hope he's in his 20s or30s

I wish.....in my 40s

ForumNewbie wrote:

they will be maintaining that cadence using highers gears than me so their average speed will be higher.

that makes sense...good point.

surfatwork · December 2012

thecycleclinic wrote:

The only way to determine avaerage cadance unless you are a human metronome

your mention of metronome gave me the idea of putting a metronome on the phone I use as my gps device - the clicking really helped me maintain a cadence of ~80 yesterday. works a treat - thanks.

cougie · December 2012

I doubt many riders average 20 mph or more. That is a small percentage.
I know my average on a Sunday run is likely to be 17mph or so for the duration and I pass more than I get passed.
Club run speeds can be higher as everyone shares the pace and racing higher still. I've done races and ridden home and the average was still 28 mph.

It is much easier on a road bike compared to a mtb and it's even faster again on a time trial bike.

smidsy · December 2012

Typically our Saturday (training) rides aim to keep the average at 22mph+ over 50 or 60 miles. It's only the top 10% of the club that can realistically achieve this with any consistency. (I am not one of them).

Our Sunday Club runs tend to be a more managable 18mph average over 40 or 50 miles. (This is where I live and sometimes its a struggle).

In conclusiuon attaining 20mph+ averages (especially on rides over 2 hrs) is very difficult.

ForumNewbie · December 2012

cougie wrote:

I've done races and ridden home and the average was still 28 mph.

28 mph average - what club are you a member of - Team Sky?

cycleclinic · December 2012

I mentioned a metronone as a joke. I didn't think it could atually work. Good thinking.

I can only sustain 20mph in a group. I once amanged 20mph average over a hilly 13.5 mile ride to a club run as I was late. I got there pretty tired.

cougie · December 2012

ForumNewbie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I've done races and ridden home and the average was still 28 mph.

28 mph average - what club are you a member of - Team Sky?

That was an hours criterium. Much faster in a bunch !

lc1981 · December 2012

KentPhil wrote:

Doesn't the amount of power you put through the cranks have an effect too?

The are basically two variables: cadence and gear ratio. So putting more power in would mean pedalling faster in the same gear, or pedalling at the same cadence in a higher gear.

Average speed...and cadence

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