Opinions please - Steel frame.

paulski1966
paulski1966 Posts: 98
edited December 2012 in MTB beginners
Been back into biking for about 8 months now and have a Voodoo Hoodoo. Looking to upgrade a few bit s on it now - but tried a couple of steel framed bikes the other day (on-one inbred and Ragley piglet - both with 120mm fork but better finishing kit wheels, drivetrain etc.). Loved the ride of both, felt more responsive, especially on downhill sections, and if I'm being honest I do prefer the aesthetic of a steel frame. My riding is roughly 60/40 trail/XC.

So question is - Buy a steel frame, transfer parts from the hoodoo over and upgrade over time as I go (I also like the idea of this on the basis that I will have built the bike myself, as I have had some issue to date with the hoodoo and Halfords infamous servicing skills)

or

Use the money to upgrade parts onto the Hoodoo frame.

Comments

  • 70\ʹspenguin
    70\ʹspenguin Posts: 957
    It would be my guess that the improved components, especially forks, would have made the biggest difference. The only way you would really know would be to ride a steel frame with the same parts and geom as your own bike. Just seems too many variables to give an answer.

    However, building your own bike is great fun!
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    Did think that may be the case - certainly felt that this was the case with the Ragley as this was running Rocksox SID, SLX components, etc. however the inbred was running a coil Recon silver, however some of the benefits may have been due to a shorter stem and loner top tube. Both just felt a lot more chuckable and responsive. My main concerns are the extra weight of the frame (although admittedly I have no idea how much that varies between the hoodoo and inbred) and whether as upgrades go its fairly pointless.
  • 70\ʹspenguin
    70\ʹspenguin Posts: 957
    I dunno what your Hoodoo weighs but its going to be between 1600g and 1800g ish. Moving to steel is going to have you looking at frame weights between 2kg - 2.5kg approx.

    Sounds a lot and if you are racing i guess it is. I seriously doubt you would notice the difference on the trails and singletrack!
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Per 50 gazillion similar threads before, material makes less difference than design. Steel frames can be light or heavy, flexy or stiff.
    Stop being a luddite and get a carbon one instead.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    cooldad wrote:
    Per 50 gazillion similar threads before, material makes less difference than design. Steel frames can be light or heavy, flexy or stiff.
    Stop being a luddite and get a carbon one instead.


    In the nicest possible way - haven't you just managed to completely contradict yourself there? Design is key but buy a carbon frame?

    Its not a question of being a luddite - its a question of not wanting to drop four times the amount of money of a carbon frame to save the same amount of weight I could achieve by laying of the beer for a fortnight :mrgreen: .

    With regards to frame design - perhaps my thread title should have been descriptive. Was looking specifically at the on one inbred or ragley piglet (possibly an on one 456) as I have ridden both, they both seem to garner positive feedback, and they are both available at a reasonable price. It was more a question as to whether the frame would be seen as making a considerable difference with regards to outlay or would the money be better spent elsewhere on component improvements as the hoodoo frame is adequate.
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    A well designed carbon frame then.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    The Voodoo's are a decent ally frame, even though it has a good for it's price point fork it won't compete with a SID and a Recon is better.

    Also the OE tyres are probably heavy compared to those on the others and that makes a huge difference to how a bike feels, heavier tyres dull all the responces to trail and rider input.

    The Voodoo components are pretty good for a swap (front mech for example is himmed and dual pull), you'd probably only need a seatpost and perhaps a clamp beyond cables etc, as you'd want better tyres and forks anyway, why not try those on the Voodoo first and then decide?
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    Cheers for the advice. Looks like it will be component upgrades for now with a change of frame later. Already switched out the tyres for Bontrager mud x's as the Ardents are not suited to winter on the south downs! Think wheels and and tubeless conversion are next.

    As for the fork - the SID was considerably better - the difference in weight really noticeable. With the recon - I have ridden a couple of bikes with coil (not air) recons and dare i say it not been that impressed, but that's been probably more due to having a quick go on bikes not set up for me then the shock.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    There is a huge difference between a bottom end coil Recon & the top end ones which have motion control compression dampers. I would go for either a Recon Gold or Reba rather than a Sid.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • 70\ʹspenguin
    70\ʹspenguin Posts: 957
    what they both said ^^^
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    There is a huge difference between a bottom end coil Recon & the top end ones which have motion control compression dampers. I would go for either a Recon Gold or Reba rather than a Sid.

    Absolutely - I was just mentioning the fact that it was a coil sprung recon as I felt that it wasn't the fork that was making the big difference between the on one and the hoodoo - although I do appreciate that there are many other aspects that affect the bike. Wasn't looking to replicate the spec on either of the bikes i tried, just liked the geometry and feel of both the frames and was considering whether it would be better to upgrade components on the hoodoo frame or move the parts of the hoodoo over to a inbred/piglet/456 and upgrade components along the way.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    It's the lack of a compression damper in the Recon rather than the coil that makes the Recon feel less controlled than the Sid. For pure damping performance a good coil spring beats an air spring. I had my last air fork (RS Lyrik) converted to coil for better damping.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The spring does not damp though - it returns just about all the energy. The damper damps. Unless you mean stiction, which is a little different. (or ramping up)
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    It's the lack of a compression damper in the Recon rather than the coil that makes the Recon feel less controlled than the Sid. For pure damping performance a good coil spring beats an air spring. I had my last air fork (RS Lyrik) converted to coil for better damping.

    Cheers for the info - much appreciated. Loving the 456SS in your sig line too 8)
  • Woodmonkey
    Woodmonkey Posts: 412
    if you're competent enough to build a bike yourself, why are taking it to halfrauds for a service?
    pity those who don't drink, the way they feel when they wake is the best they will feel all day


    voodoo hoodoo
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    Woodmonkey wrote:
    if you're competent enough to build a bike yourself, why are taking it to halfrauds for a service?

    Because its part of the package I got with the bike. To ask the same question back - "why would I spend time servicing the bike myself when I can instead spend the time with my children and get someone else to do it for free?"

    As for competency - Haven't built a bike myself, but have restored this

    newyear06014.jpg

    To this (including paint)

    P4100584.jpg

    And currently working on this -

    SeaLong1.jpg

    I fully appreciate that these are completely different to building a bike but I'm fairly mechanically minded. I do enjoy getting my hands dirty, I enjoy the security of having done every nut and bolt myself - but I also enjoy spending time with my kids and I'm not going to work on something when someone else is willing to do it for free.
  • Woodmonkey
    Woodmonkey Posts: 412
    Wasn't questioning your ability, just the choice of taking your bike to halfrauds even if it's free!by the time you check it over and tighten everything up and adjust it properly you might as well have done it yourself anyway! Nice beetle by the way.
    pity those who don't drink, the way they feel when they wake is the best they will feel all day


    voodoo hoodoo
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    Woodmonkey wrote:
    by the time you check it over and tighten everything up and adjust it properly you might as well have done it yourself anyway!

    In all fairness the bike mechanic at my local Halfords is OK - part time which is a pain in the arse as it takes ages to get anything done but from what I've heard and seen his work is fine. The shop guys however who do the general work however... there I see what you mean. I now insist that any work that is done on the bike is only done by the mechanic.
    Nice beetle by the way.

    Cheers - looks a little different to that now though (by different I mean in bits in various boxes in my garage and loft!)
  • 70\ʹspenguin
    70\ʹspenguin Posts: 957
    Ever go shuffling at the Wigan Casino?
  • paulski1966
    paulski1966 Posts: 98
    70\'sPenguin wrote:
    Ever go shuffling at the Wigan Casino?

    Ha ha - no, Wigan Casino was before my time unfortunately. The Lambretta was for my dads 60th - he had a Li150 in 63.

Categories