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UCI on disk brakes

andrewjosephandrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
edited March 2012 in Pro race
from velonews http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/news/road/uci-road-discs-off-the-table-for-2012-could-be-approved-for-race-use-2013_210440
At first, the UCI is concerned that a small number of riders with brakes that work significantly better than those of their fellow riders, particularly in bad conditions, would create a dangerous situation.

I'm the first to argue that disk brakes are better than current rim calipers, but surely this argument is silly, braking technique is variable throughout the peleton anyway, different brakes won't affect this much. As it is, many manufacturers claim their brakes are better than the competition so you would see this effect now.
--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails

Posts

  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,675
    wow, rake's gonna be p1ssed! ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 10,199
    Totally ridiculous. Even the low end city bikes for a couple of hundred quid are fitted with disc brakes nowadays. I'm fairly sure that there wouldn't be many teams that would pass up the opportunity for "brakes that work significantly better".
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 53,386 Lives Here
    Don't see how disk brakes can stop faster than rim brakes - given it's easy to lock wheels with your rim brakes anyway.

    The limits to braking speed isn't the braking, but the grip (or lack of) the rider has.
    _
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 10,199
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Don't see how disk brakes can stop faster than rim brakes - given it's easy to lock wheels with your rim brakes anyway.

    The limits to braking speed isn't the braking, but the grip (or lack of) the rider has.

    And in the wet? Disc brakes offer better control over braking, with a fairly uniform response in all conditions. Its not all about braking as sharply as possible, as anyone that's gone over the handlebars braking too hard on a descent will attest.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Don't see how disk brakes can stop faster than rim brakes - given it's easy to lock wheels with your rim brakes anyway.

    The limits to braking speed isn't the braking, but the grip (or lack of) the rider has.

    As previously mentioned rim brakes aren't particularly good in the wet. Also, they get rid of the overheating issues with rims on long descents.

    The better argument against disc brakes is, they are potentially nasty in crashes.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • patchypatchy Posts: 779
    Are they more concerned about the lower end of things than the pro tour here? Sure, your pro teams will be on discs quicker than a Shimano rep can say 'profit margin', but i can see at the amateur level there would be guys on new bikes racing discs versus those on older bikes using rim brakes... More scope for injury there?

    Even so the argument is a fallacy, as there will always be an introductory period regardless of when they come in. Really, UCI should be approving for race use in 2013 or 2014 now to ensure manufacturers can get their ducks in a row and that you don't have these issues.
    point your handlebars towards the heavens and sweat like you're in hell
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 7,224
    Jez mon wrote:
    As previously mentioned rim brakes aren't particularly good in the wet. Also, they get rid of the overheating issues with rims on long descents.

    Aren't carbon rims poor in the wet as well, even with the correct brake pads? Maybe everyone should have a standard set of wheels and brakes issued at the start of a race!
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    As previously mentioned rim brakes aren't particularly good in the wet. Also, they get rid of the overheating issues with rims on long descents.

    Aren't carbon rims poor in the wet as well, even with the correct brake pads? Maybe everyone should have a standard set of wheels and brakes issued at the start of a race!

    From what I've heard!

    Personal experience is that different pad/rim combos perform vastly differently. Of course, in the pro ranks, I suspect that they all perform fairly similarly, but as above in the amateur ranks you're going to get a very large spread, of both rim/pad, but also ability.

    Fundamentally, I don't see it being about safety. It's the UCI going, ewww, disc brakes re ugly.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    There are far more practical reasons to hold off on disc brakes in mass start races - at least for while. Currently, neutral service has a standard front wheel, a Shimano / Sram 10 speed rear and a Campag 11 speed rear. Bring discs into the equation and the number of wheels doubles - and could potentially get worse if there is not standardisation on the width of the rear, so you could have 130mm and 135mm rear wheels in each gear option too. You'd need a Transit to do neutral service and the Mavic support bikes would probably need a trailer.

    The only way around this would be for the UCI to declare a "standard" braking arrangement to be supported - e.g. discs for everyone - to be implemented in ProTour races by say, the start of 2014.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • andrewjosephandrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    LangerDan wrote:
    There are far more practical reasons to hold off on disc brakes in mass start races - at least for while. Currently, neutral service has a standard front wheel, a Shimano / Sram 10 speed rear and a Campag 11 speed rear. Bring discs into the equation and the number of wheels doubles - and could potentially get worse if there is not standardisation on the width of the rear, so you could have 130mm and 135mm rear wheels in each gear option too. You'd need a Transit to do neutral service and the Mavic support bikes would probably need a trailer.

    The only way around this would be for the UCI to declare a "standard" braking arrangement to be supported - e.g. discs for everyone - to be implemented in ProTour races by say, the start of 2014.

    This sound much more realistic than 'some riders will have better braking than others and cause chaos'.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 7,224
    Interesting how this might affect bike manufacture. In theroy, you could have a bike that weighs less than 6.8kg, doesn't comply with the 3:1 aero regulations and now has disc brakes OR a UCI legal bike. Do peope want the same bike Cancellara rides or something better? Specialized make two versions of the Shiv and the Cervelo P5 has two different fork types. Will we see this for road bikes as well?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,675
    Volagi certainly agree with you...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The arguments about disc brakes causing injuries in crashes is spurious, we've had a circular saw blade on bikes (chainring) doing plenty of damage for years.
    Braking on carbon rims in the wet can be pretty hairy IME, combined with the overheating rims/blowing innertubes of carbon clinchers - discs would pretty-well eliminate both.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • andyracandyrac Posts: 520
    Just let them in......it's the 21st Century...

    There's the old adage in Motorsport, win on Sunday, sell on Monday.....Surely something similar applies to bike racing, of all disciplines. Racing is supposed to 'improve the breed' by competition. Surely the pro racers should be using these before 'Joe Public'? The Manufacturers aren't in it for the fun of it, it's to sell more bikes. Perhaps bike racing needs 'Homologation specials'... :wink:


    All Road/ Gravel: tbc
    WInter: Trek Domane ALR3
    MTB: Canyon Grand Canyon 8.0
    Road: tbc
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,675
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The arguments about disc brakes causing injuries in crashes is spurious, we've had a circular saw blade on bikes (chainring) doing plenty of damage for years.
    Braking on carbon rims in the wet can be pretty hairy IME, combined with the overheating rims/blowing innertubes of carbon clinchers - discs would pretty-well eliminate both.

    The only possibility is that they could burn you after a long descent as they get hot - but then that's no different from metal wheel rims either...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • campagonecampagone Posts: 270
    I nearly sliced the top of my finger off trying to adjust the caliper on my mtb with the wheel spinning (I know, stupid thing to do and now Ive learned my lesson). From my experience if you don't get the wheel back in perfectly centred you get disc rub on the pad.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,675
    ^true of rim brakes too though...but discs should self align (within reason!)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 53,386 Lives Here
    ddraver wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The arguments about disc brakes causing injuries in crashes is spurious, we've had a circular saw blade on bikes (chainring) doing plenty of damage for years.
    Braking on carbon rims in the wet can be pretty hairy IME, combined with the overheating rims/blowing innertubes of carbon clinchers - discs would pretty-well eliminate both.

    The only possibility is that they could burn you after a long descent as they get hot - but then that's no different from metal wheel rims either...

    I remember hearing all about this.

    Then I actually bombed down loads of Pyrenean mountains, and I was so disappointed to see that my rims were only 'warm'. Not hot. Nowhere near burning.
    _
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,675
    Well that's cos you re so awesome you don't need to brake Rick! ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 53,386 Lives Here
    ddraver wrote:
    Well that's cos you're so awesome you don't need to brake Rick! ;)


    This.

    Always remember this.

    You are so right.
    _
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 7,224
    But Rick, your bike is like this, right?

    gazelle-bike1.jpg

    Hub brakes, the rims won't get hot...

    :wink:
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