Chinarello
Look595585
Posts: 3
I'm considering buying a Pinarello Dogma 60.1 copy from one of the "Chinarello" companys from China.
Please let me hear all good or bad experiences from those that heve done this.
Especially concerning performace of the frame compared the the real thing.
And where you bought it, which brand?
Please let me hear all good or bad experiences from those that heve done this.
Especially concerning performace of the frame compared the the real thing.
And where you bought it, which brand?
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I,ve had mine for 3 months or so now am very pleased with it. Has,nt fallen apart, not melted in the Sun, paint has,nt washed off in the rain. It,s been a very good buy IMHO and i would certainly buy again. I got mine from the Alibaba website and the seller was Speedy Li. All emails were answered promtly and delivery was quick to the Netherlands. Only downfall for me was that Dutch customs then refused to release the frame for almost 6 weeks due to a low value being written on the invoice a good lesson for next time.Frame handles well, paint finish is very good i got White with Red and Silver and it really looks very good. My colleagues are also interested in purchasing one now. Think you would be hard pushed to find a better frame for the price.Would like to show a picture but dont know if the moderators would allow it. Some cycle forums have banned pictures of Chinarellos from being published on their website. Send me a P.M and i,ll send some photos your way you can then judge for yourself.
Ademortademort
Chinarello, record and Mavic Cosmic Sl
Gazelle Vuelta , veloce
Giant Defy 4
Mirage Columbus SL
Batavus Ventura0 -
There was a picture on here before the site got re hashed of a chinarello which had suffered a terminal front end failure. If I remember right there was a copy of Xiang Times (Newspaper) shoved down the fork steerer.
Any one got the link?0 -
If you look on the WW site i think you will find it.I also commented at the time. The poster of the picture say,s this was what happened on a club run he was on and then posts two pictures of allegedly the same accident but when you look at the pictures it shows there are two different bikes it was a long story but just as it was getting interesting moderators on the ww site pulled the plug.
Ademortademort
Chinarello, record and Mavic Cosmic Sl
Gazelle Vuelta , veloce
Giant Defy 4
Mirage Columbus SL
Batavus Ventura0 -
http://pinarellochina.com/index.php/frames/road.html
I've not got a Pinarello-esqu paint job but do have a chinese carbon frame. Really pleased with it and dont believe half of the bullcrap written about "failures" - probably written mostly by people who have never bought a cheap carbon frame from China.
The only frame i ever had that failed was built by Tomac - supposedly in the USA0 -
Wirral_Paul wrote:
I just threw up on my keyboard...this is really, really low....0 -
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... lo#p782222
Above the pictures on the WW site poster Starnut is a fu@in Nut if you ask me and when you read the thread competely you can make your own conclusions.
Ademortademort
Chinarello, record and Mavic Cosmic Sl
Gazelle Vuelta , veloce
Giant Defy 4
Mirage Columbus SL
Batavus Ventura0 -
The broken fork story and pictures look like BS to me.
There are all sorts of bikes and brands with all sorts of cracks, breakages and so on but that story on WW just doesn't add up.0 -
Still cheap sh!te for ... well, cheap Sh!tes ...
You can buy a good Alu frame for £500 ... or a carbon 105 bike in the sales for around £1300, which is probably what this crap would cost by the time you buy a groupo, wheels etc ...
It's like going on a foreign holiday and buying fake goods while there ... Just stay home and save for the real thing ...
If you wanna buy a chinese carbon bike to build as just that then fine, at least that's honest ...0 -
No, I won't have the Pinarello lettering on it.0
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Look595585,
There is no doubt that the Far East (Taiwan and China) can and do make high quality carbon frames, either branded (Pinarello, Specialized, Parlee etc) or own brand. The problem with the Pinarello knock-offs is that the sourcing is less clear/verifiable and so quality control etc may be an issue. It is one thing to buy a fake Rolex and when it goes wrong you have to ask someone else the time, it is another thing if a frame fails when you are doing 40 mph down a mountain. Obviously carbon fibre frames do break, including for the big name brands and expensive frames, but the aim is to minimize that risk.
Where a Chinese manufacturer is producing frames for a mainstream brand you are relying on the quality control of the manufacturer and the brand. Where a Chinese manufaturer is putting out frames under their own name you are relying on the quality control of the manufacturer. In both these instances it is in the interests of the manufacturers to maintain good quality control (although frames will still fail). With a Chinarello you take the risk on an unknown manufacturer who is not trying to either protect a brand or a manufacturing reputation.0 -
dont you think that the chinese manufacturuer is also keen to get a good reputation? If they get a good name they will easily dominate the market0
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I used to bother about this ... But as I proved withthe guy and the fake Livestrong bike, the folks that buy them just end up looking like a tit in the end ...0
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If you go for a fake, you pay your money you take the risks. That's not saying that you'd experience problems, but you may.
There are two main types of chinese fake goods (not restricted to bikes)
1) Those where the manufacturer of the fake has bought an original, measured it and made their own version. These can range from fantastic to appaulling, depending on how much you want to pay.
2) Those where the employees of the real manufacturers whether it be Pinarello's frame makers or the makers of designer handbags, stay on after hours to knock out a few additional goods on the side. In the case of frames, these may come from the same molds, but they're often rush jobs. The attention to detail in the manufacturing process isn't there, corners are cut and the QA proceedures aren't there.
In both cases if it's not a Pinarello, it's not a Pinarello. You may get a fantastic copy, you may get a piece of sh*t. You pays yer money, you takes yer chance.
How do I know this ? A friend of mine works for a company in Shanghai who investigate and bring to prosecution, counterfiet goods manufacturers.Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
don't listen to the haters and get one if you want one.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-carbon-thread-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806.html
over at the roadbikereview forums they are on version 6.0 of their thread on the topic.. and i haven't seen anyone post up about dangerous problems with their frames in what must be about 1200 pages of forum thread!
(actually i think one guy's front end went floppy.. but he got a replacement sent out under warranty!)
Its not a Pinarello as has already been pointed out -> but the general consensus from the many people who have brought the frames is that they are very nice frames for the price.
I would advise against getting a Dogma copy though as those tend to be more expensive -> you could get a different frame with a custom paint job, or one of the newer frames for the same price. (the newer ones come in some pretty nice styles)0 -
It's funny how these threads are always about QC and perceived risk rather than the fact that by buying and importing counterfeit goods (which is illegal, incidentally) you are effectively putting money into the pockets of thieves who are trading on Pinarello's name. Does nobody care about intellectual property?
Btw, it's also worth noting that most or all of the fake Dogmas appear to have been copied from Prince moulds. The give away is the round seatpost - the Dogma's is squared off.0 -
I only think of it as counterfeir if it is sign written to have a brand on it, a frame that is sold as "similar" to a brand is OK by me.MajorMantra wrote:It's funny how these threads are always about QC and perceived risk rather than the fact that by buying and importing counterfeit goods (which is illegal, incidentally) you are effectively putting money into the pockets of thieves who are trading on Pinarello's name. Does nobody care about intellectual property?
Btw, it's also worth noting that most or all of the fake Dogmas appear to have been copied from Prince moulds. The give away is the round seatpost - the Dogma's is squared off.
this happens a lotwith golf clubs, a great design is copied and rebadged as a cheaper version
I think if you buy a fram and then put a brand name on it then you are a bit of a tool, if you need to have a certain name on your bike then you need to get a life. I would rather get a sticker that says chinarelloand be proud that I can ride a bike that is essentially the same as a Nike that is thousands more to purchase0 -
Call me a righteous boring old fart, but if somebody buys a knock-off copy of any type of manufactured product, somebody somewhere is getting ripped off. I just wouldn't do it. You might as well go shoplifting. I own two Planet X bikes, because as far as I'm concerned they're very good value for money. I don't really care where they're made, I just hope/assume they're not made by ill-treated Chinese street urchins.
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The only known failure I've heard off was the guy who manually sanded his steerer tube because he couldn't get the crown race to fit on his forks - guess what, they broke.
Anyone who buy's a fake or 'replica' is an ar$e IMO - the exception being the Chinarello Dogpoo which is a great pi$$-take: https://plus.google.com/117666625199895 ... 87eHgZ2fSs
I'd have no problem buying one of the open-mould unbranded $300 frames from China either - bit cheaper than the £800 you pay down your LBS with someone else's stickers on it, plus a whole load of marketing BS - these are lot of decent, proven designs from manufacturers like XPA and DengFu. There's enough info out there to make an informed purchase.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:
(actually i think one guy's front end went floppy.. but he got a replacement sent out under warranty!)
Are we still talking about frames? If not have you got a link to this service? :shock:0 -
liquor box wrote:I only think of it as counterfeir if it is sign written to have a brand on it, a frame that is sold as "similar" to a brand is OK by me.
Not sure I follow.
The vast majority of the Chinarellos are either a)not acknowledged as copies at all or b)sold as "OEM" which is a flat out lie as well since they are not OEM. Just look at that Pinarello China link above - it's a straight rip off of Pinarello's own website.
I have no problem with people riding Chinese carbon frames but theft is theft.0 -
Counterfeit goods are wrong, selling counterfeit goods as real is very wrong.
When there is a talk about Chinarellos, someone will bring up the issue of those unethical Chinese stealing intellectual property. How they are not adhering to the global standard. However, I almost never see anyone talk about fair labor laws. Shouldn't the companies and people who complain about Chinese business ethics also be on the side of fair wages and benefits on par with the rest of the "first world"? How much do most of these Chinese workers make in those bike factories or similar? Less than US$10 a day (some cases way less), no benefits, minimum safety standards, harsh working conditions. Maybe the so righteous people should start saying something about that. It will be a step toward solving the problem of counterfeit instead of worrying about the guy riding next to you enjoying his bike is on a real Pina or not. When you write a letter to the company informing them of possible fake, also urge them to provide fair labor practices.
Pinarello factories are in Tawian, about US$30 a day is more than generous I guess.
Real crime? Exploitation!
But I guess them genuine $10,000 Pina setup ain't free. People have to maximize their profit to bring home the doug in order to buy them legit luxury goods. As long as is legal, right? I'm sure many will say the Chinese's living standard is lower, so US$10 a day is plenty for them developing countries workers.
On another note: I'm sure most all of those who buys a spanking new Pinarello Dogma, purchased it because of the bike's true ability and able to ride it like the wind. Pretentious? Being a tool? Never!
In case someone is wondering. I'm an art dealer who used to ride a lot, but now rides only a few times a year with all the cool gears going a few MPH faster than your average grandma. I now buy bikes because they are o so pretty. After this sudden urge to rant I'm gonna be late for my dinner reservation. I hope my porsche will get me there sooner. By tonight the only problem I'm going to worry about is a 32oz porterhouse heartburn.
If I happen to see someone riding a Chinarello, I'll probably give a frown, then ask "hows the ride". <---- Only real relevance to this thread.
BTW, Pinarello made record sales and profit last few years as did many other bike companies with factories in China and Taiwan.0 -
great first post/first impression there Louie.
the counterfeit debate has gone on a while since fake Rolex's and Vuarnet sunglasses appeared in the 80s. people like to look down on those who buy fakes.
art is different, the art world has made a lot of money from reporductions or reprints of famous works. one would have to work hard to find a university residence where you couldn't see a print of the Scream, that Escher unending staircase or a photo by Robert Doisneau. funny how no one frowns on these - maybe because they're bought to look at rather than status symbols.The titifers have sung their song.
Now it's time for sleep.0 -
