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Derby Velodrome

poppitpoppit Posts: 926
edited December 2015 in Track
Eddy Merckx EMX-3
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  • OffTheBackAdamOffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,914
    I see no mention of a velodrome.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • johnmioshjohnmiosh Posts: 210
    "The concert hall would be part of a "multi-sport arena". Its preferred site is at the park-and-ride land at Pride Park. It would feature 12 courts at the centre suitable for a variety of sports, including basketball and netball. Around the edge would be a cycle track."

    The cycle track is a 250m indoor pine track.
  • alanfalanf Posts: 222
    Pipedream, in this financial climate.
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOUGHNUTS!!!
    I like
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOUGHNUTS!!!
  • ProssPross Posts: 26,052
    No reason why it should be - Newport velodrome must actually make the Council money as it is heavily used. There are still only 3 indoor full sized velodromes in England and Wales (plus Calshot) as far as I'm aware so still a lot of demand.
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    I dont see how the velodrome itself makes money, only if the other sports subsidise it.
    Newport is not that heavily used actually.
    If you look at the fee, about £75 an hour it would be impossible to be profitable for cycling only.
    As far as I know the newprot velodrome was lottery funded and probably heavily subsidised but others would probably knowmore than me :D
  • I dont see how the velodrome itself makes money, only if the other sports subsidise it.
    Newport is not that heavily used actually.
    If you look at the fee, about £75 an hour it would be impossible to be profitable for cycling only.
    As far as I know the newprot velodrome was lottery funded and probably heavily subsidised but others would probably knowmore than me :D


    Doesn't happen too often but the oldwelshman is correct! The track component of the Newport velodrome building is subsidised by the in-field activities. An indoor track on its own and without subsidy isn't viable unless charges were to be prohibitly high. The capital expenditure,whilst not easy to find, is actually not the primary issue when seeking the build of a new indoor track facility. Use of a track would initially be high but would eventually settle down and if you add in seasonal fluctuations (substantial in the summer until a champs looms) there will be considerable periods of no use. All this is sad but true!
  • andytownandytown Posts: 2
    I see no mention of a velodrome.
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • alanfalanf Posts: 222
    If this ever gets built I'll eat Oldwelshmans Shammy!
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOUGHNUTS!!!
    I like
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOUGHNUTS!!!
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Just trying to map a customers journey into a velodrome for a bit of work I'm doing and need the benefit of all your experiences. These are the key journey steps I've initially identified, are there any more?

    • Customer parks in the car park
    • Customer enters the velodrome
    • Customer pays at reception
    • Customer uses the changing room
    • Customer uses the track
    • Customer uses the changing room
    • Customer uses other facilities e.g. café
    • Customer leaves the velodrome

    Could you tell me what are your primary thoughts at each of the steps, what is most important to you, etc.

    Thanks
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • johnmioshjohnmiosh Posts: 210
    I see very few riders using the changing rooms for training sessions; most come prepared, just remove tracksuit/jeans - ride - replace tracksuit/jeans go home. Although in competition, with longer travel distances these facilities are likely to be more important.

    Car parking is an important consideration. If you are heading to a wooden velodrome, you will not want to wheel the bike through the car park and so will be carrying it on your shoulder. You may also have spare wheels, pump, tools, rollers etc. so you would not want to walk too far from the car park to the track access.

    You might also want to consider other customers, i.e. spectators at events. For them the catering and bars etc. will be much more important.

    The quality of the attached bike shop may be a factor to consider. What range of accessories does it sell, cleats, chains, track mitts, bikes?
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    johnmiosh wrote:
    I see very few riders using the changing rooms for training sessions; most come prepared, just remove tracksuit/jeans - ride - replace tracksuit/jeans go home. Although in competition, with longer travel distances these facilities are likely to be more important.

    Car parking is an important consideration. If you are heading to a wooden velodrome, you will not want to wheel the bike through the car park and so will be carrying it on your shoulder. You may also have spare wheels, pump, tools, rollers etc. so you would not want to walk too far from the car park to the track access.

    You might also want to consider other customers, i.e. spectators at events. For them the catering and bars etc. will be much more important.

    The quality of the attached bike shop may be a factor to consider. What range of accessories does it sell, cleats, chains, track mitts, bikes?

    Cheers. What about going through reception, etc carrying your bike, would it be good to have somewhere to put your bike while you pay plus use the changing room that is secure. Also, if you use the cafe afterwards would you want somewhere to store your bike.

    I'm trying to look at designing out some of the barriers/frustrations that are there in exisiting facilities.
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • johnmioshjohnmiosh Posts: 210
    Hi Poppit,

    Are you involved in the Derby project in some way?

    For training sessions, carrying the bike in and paying isn't an issue, I just lay it against the counter. I am not sure if lack of security is much of an issue as I'm sure that someone walking off with someone else's bike would be noticed.

    I rarely, if ever, visit the velodrome when the cafe is open, but probably wouldn't use it if it was. Perhaps others who train during the daytime use it frequently and are more worried about security.
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    johnmiosh wrote:
    Hi Poppit,

    Are you involved in the Derby project in some way?

    For training sessions, carrying the bike in and paying isn't an issue, I just lay it against the counter. I am not sure if lack of security is much of an issue as I'm sure that someone walking off with someone else's bike would be noticed.

    I rarely, if ever, visit the velodrome when the cafe is open, but probably wouldn't use it if it was. Perhaps others who train during the daytime use it frequently and are more worried about security.

    Yes. Want to cast the net as far as possible to get track users opinions on what works well and what doesn't and what frustrates them. Looking at the amount of views and lack of responses perhaps nothing does and everythings fine at the facilities they use!
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • ah_whittah_whitt Posts: 55
    PM sent offering help.
  • Eddy SEddy S Posts: 1,013
    edited May 2011
    poppit wrote:
    Just trying to map a customers journey into a velodrome for a bit of work I'm doing and need the benefit of all your experiences. These are the key journey steps I've initially identified, are there any more?

    • Customer parks in the car park
    • Customer enters the velodrome
    • Customer pays at reception
    • Customer uses the changing room
    • Customer uses the track
    • Customer uses the changing room
    • Customer uses other facilities e.g. café
    • Customer leaves the velodrome

    Could you tell me what are your primary thoughts at each of the steps, what is most important to you, etc.

    Thanks
    Here are some thoughts for starters. I'll add more as/when I come up with it:

    • Customer parks in the car park
    On a training day, I have 2 loads to carry from the car. On a race day it’s 3 loads. The car parking needs to be very close to the entrance.

    • Customer enters the velodrome
    Automatic doors please. And ones that are operational all of the time. I’m fed up of scratching my frame fighting with the doors getting in and out of a certain velodrome that only switched on the auto doors for elite/international meetings...

    • Customer pays at reception
    Will I be able to take my equipment directly to the track centre after paying but before getting changed? If not, there need to be a safe place to leave everything.

    • Customer uses the changing room
    How about a dry pre-exercise area to get changed? There’s nothing worse the getting changed in a steamed up room with a wet floor before using the track.

    • Customer uses the track
    Plenty of space, bike racks, flexible & comfortable seating, water supply, somewhere to roll around to keep warm. Track centre also needs to have adequate toilet facilities close by.

    • Customer uses the changing room
    Always needed whether it’s training or competition. I wouldn’t drive home the 100 plus miles without getting showered and changed. There needs to be more then enough space in changing rooms to accommodate competitions/busy periods with properly ventilated shower & changing area – there’s nothing worse then being more sweaty after a shower then you were before it...

    • Customer uses other facilities e.g. café
    Yeah, I’d use it (as long as there was a really decent coffee supply 8) ) before travelling home. It could be a good space for post-session meetings with coaches, pre-session briefings, etc.


    Other stuff:
    As a track coach – if the track centre is going to be multi use, there needs to be clear segregation between the bike area and the areas for other sports/users. Anybody who uses Newport when there is football, hockey, table tennis, etc, etc, going on will know what I mean.

    If the facility is used for a major competition, competitors need to be able to safely and securely leave their equipment overnight and not like Newport where we have to either remove everything or move it in to a storage area for which we get charged – not a great experience when you’re racing on consecutive days.

    For local users – bike storage.
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    ah_witt - Got the PM, if I get the chance I'll email you tomorrow.

    Eddy S - Great info, thanks, we'll take your comments on board. Visiting Newport this week so I'll check out what you say about it.
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • ProssPross Posts: 26,052
    I'd agree with Eddy about Newport - hearing a coach on the beginner's classes when there is a football match going on is tricky!
  • Benjamin HallBenjamin Hall Posts: 608
    Pross wrote:
    I'd agree with Eddy about Newport - hearing a coach on the beginner's classes when there is a football match going on is tricky!

    That is definitely true, you have no idea what is going on. The acoustics in there arnt really conducive to large group lessons.
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    I agree with Eddy's comments , especially about the changing rooms. It is normally only local guys who turn up "prepared".
    I for one do not like leaving my bikes outside changing rooms while changing but at Newport at least they now have barriers at reception.
    Plenty of bike racks should be provided as I have seen shortage of this at Newport and Manchester during events especially.
    In this day and age you have to have multi sport venue to increase revenue so have to put up with it.
    Most sports are ok but football can be a pain, and can cause confusion with whistle :D though it is not normally a problem with experienced group but for beginners sessions I guess it is much better to do during a queit period or at least not when football playing.
    Car parks could be bigger as they are always full due to multi sport venue, maybe make special bays for cyclists closer to the velodrome so it is easier to make the journeys for race bike, pursuit bike, spare wheels, rollers etc. Those just using the gym can walk further as they generally carry nothing.
  • Eddy SEddy S Posts: 1,013
    Just to pick up on the point made by Mark, Ben and David and to clarify what I was getting at.

    It’s not just the noise cross-over/pollution of the other sports that concerns me.

    The way Newport is constructed means that in the riders' D you have kids that aren’t playing matches running around with hockey sticks, practicing shots/passes while riders come on and off the track. When football is on, I’ve seen footballs kicked on to the track numerous times (again by kids not playing matches on the courts).

    The coaches/parents of the other sports never seem to understand or see the safety issues. This isn’t a particular problem at Manchester as the riders’ D is separated and at a different level.

    If the track centre at Derby is going to be one level, perhaps those involved with its design and construction can find different ways of making it work for everybody.
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Thanks for the comments. Acoustics are difficult because of the nature of the building, lots of hard surfaces. For info, there won't be any football taking place on the infield, Derby's got plenty of artificial grass pitches and sports halls.
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Anyone else got any comments?
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
  • Eddy SEddy S Posts: 1,013
    poppit wrote:
    Anyone else got any comments?
    So far the ‘questioning’ has been very much along the end user story line.

    I think you need speak to people who run and organise track leagues at the outdoor tracks let alone what happens in Newport and Manchester, involve organisers of National level meetings (Nationals, Youth, Junior, Masters) to see what they might want better from the facilities.

    You may well already be getting feedback BC, organisers, commissaires, etc, etc, etc, but just thought I’d check as it's worth getting them involved early.

    Drop me a PM if I can help in any way but I am in hospital at the moment so you may not get instant response.

    Eddy.
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    The project is progressing well, should start the detailed design process in the next few weeks.
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • StedmanStedman Posts: 377
    Poppif,

    Do you need a competent CDM-C on this project?
  • poppitpoppit Posts: 926
    Planning permission granted yesterday, on target to start the build in the summer.
    Eddy Merckx EMX-3
    Dolan L'Etape
    Cougar Zero Uno
    Genesis Core 50
    Planet X TOR
  • Poppit, for the list, ignore irrelevant building regs and only have one door from the corridor into the changing rooms.(CCTV in the corridor outside the changing rooms. I know this won't stop theft but is a deterrent)
    And a simple one, if you go for track centre sports, make sure the whistles used must be a different pitch to the ones the track coaches use.

    These two wind me up every time I go to Newport. No doubt Manchester will be the same tomorrow.
    Live to ski
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