The aluminium king?

BBH
BBH Posts: 476
edited April 2011 in Road buying advice
Guys, which, in your opinions and experience, is the best aluminium bike from;

Canyon ultimate al
Cervelo s1
CAAD 9/10

I am after an aluminium bike for solo runs and with mates of up to about 50miles, winter club runs (and possibly crits in the future). I would like it to be as comfortable as possible but am not after a bike for sportives. This bike must last me for at least 3 years (they are the imposed rules!!) so I am desperate not to make a mistake as I cannot get a test ride on any of the above.

I have read so many reviews about the s1, all saying it’s a harsh ride but they all seem to be in comparison to carbon, how does it fair in comparison to another aluminium equivalent eg. CAAD 9/10?

I have not heard as much about the caad10 this year as last year on the caad9, anyone got one yet??

There is a lot of hype around canyon, how do the aluminium bikes ride?? The only reviews I have found are on the canyon website.

Has anyone ridden two or more of these bikes??

Please help a very confused man!! :? :?
(thanks!! :):) )
2012 Scott Foil 10 (Shimano dura ace) - in progress
2011 Cervelo S2 (SRAM Red/Force)
2011 Cannondale Caad 10 (Shimano 105)

"Hills Hurt, Couches Kill!!"
Twitter: @MadRoadie

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    They are all good.

    However principia are possibly 'aluminium king'

    I have had some top carbon bikes and now ride an aluminium Colnago (with carbon rear end) it's the best handling bike I've had. I had a C50 but it was one size too small unfortunately, but it goes to show that fit and geometry are more important than frame material...
  • tremayne
    tremayne Posts: 378
    What is generating the overiding requirement for aluminium? I only ask - as you are stating comfort as very important - and I'm not sure aluminium is favourite? I guess you have good reasons but can't help but mention you'd potentially put a bigger tick in the comfort box if you went full carbon or ally/carbon mix.
  • BBH
    BBH Posts: 476
    edited April 2011
    Thanks nap - hadnt thought of principia! I'll investigate now.

    re: aluminium, well comfort is important but not the be all and end all. This bike is for all year use as an aside to my carbon bike which I like, but probably due more to my paranoia, I am worried about coming off it and the frame cracking. In my limited knowledge about frame materials I think (probably wrongly) that alu is more hardy.
    I would also like to target a good alu frame as there is alot of talk about good quality alu being better than cheaper carbon models. How right or wrong that is I dont know. Also, I would like to try some crits when my fitness is better, and I am also aware that spills are a common occurence when racing, so I would also like a frame that (hopefully) wont require replacement after a spill.

    Cheers for the replies :D
    2012 Scott Foil 10 (Shimano dura ace) - in progress
    2011 Cervelo S2 (SRAM Red/Force)
    2011 Cannondale Caad 10 (Shimano 105)

    "Hills Hurt, Couches Kill!!"
    Twitter: @MadRoadie
  • tremayne
    tremayne Posts: 378
    I'd have to say that you probably have it about right with regard to general toughness and ease of repair. I'd see aluminium frames as being capable of withstanding a lot more abuse than carbon - so given your further explanation, I'm totally with you. If I thought there was an above average chance of falling off, no way I'd consider full carbon.

    Titanium would be the other material springing to mind, but it's pretty much priced out of comparison. Very best of luck in finding something which fits the bill. Canondale have huge aluminium experience and have pretty much been in it since the start (not as far back as ALAN / Vitus etc - but pretty far back!).
  • graham_g
    graham_g Posts: 652
    I'd say an alu frame is justified just on the price:weight ratio, particularly with frames of the quality that canyon/cannondale etc. produce. That's how I'll be looking at it when I finally treat myself to a race bike.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    I'd have a look at the Condor Squadra/Italia too if you're anywhere in/near London. Someone was selling the 58cm Italia frame and fork on the road buying section and they are nice bikes...
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    NapoleonD wrote:

    However principia are possibly 'aluminium king'

    Possibly helped by the cult status after they went bust mid-2000's. Now they're back they seem damn hard to get in the UK. CRC still have one or two of the 2004/05 frames left.

    I'd guess that Canyon and Cannondale are on a par now with the Ultimate Al and CAAD10.
    Canyon Endurace CF 2014 | Canyon Ultimate CF 2010
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Principia have a new distributor, I'd love the new REX but can't afford it...

    I' m not sold on the aluminium being more hardy than carbon either...

    Aluminium certainly has it's place and it is currently a very under-rated material by the mamil generation...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lsDXEEU ... ata_player
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    Err well it might not have had a visible dent like the aluminium but there's no bloody chance you'd get me riding that carbon frame after the first hit. Basically that video proves nothing. Pretty entertaining though.

    I don't really see why people debate the durability of each material in crash or impact terms. If the impact is big enough it will structurally damage both carbon and alloy. If it's not a big impact both will be fine.

    Where durability matters is fatigue. Whilst you're not guaranteed to crash, you are guaranteed to stress the frame material. If it fails due to fatigue then there is a genuine factor to consider.

    BTW who are the actual dealers? I know they've got a UK distributor but they list no dealers :?
    Canyon Endurace CF 2014 | Canyon Ultimate CF 2010
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I wouldn't ride either, either, but it just shows that carbon is tougher than people give credit for...

    It appears there are no dealers as yet for principia :(
  • BBH
    BBH Posts: 476
    Pretty good video nap :shock: , scary but funny - goes to show quite alot of effort required to break a carbon frame! Despite this I'm still set on an alu frame (and am still a few years under the mamil age limit!! :):) )

    anyone have any experience or know of differences between caad 10/ultimate al and the 'old school' s1 in terms of ride??

    Does anyone know if this is the last year for the s1?? - was reading that cervelo were trying to phase this frame out this year or is this just rumour??

    Re: geometry of the s1 - I am a bit confused re: 73 and 76 degree seattube angle - Is this when the seatpost is normal (i.e. non-TT) and when flipped for TT? Just trying to work out the toptube length on the website.

    Cheers all :D
    2012 Scott Foil 10 (Shimano dura ace) - in progress
    2011 Cervelo S2 (SRAM Red/Force)
    2011 Cannondale Caad 10 (Shimano 105)

    "Hills Hurt, Couches Kill!!"
    Twitter: @MadRoadie
  • Lagavulin
    Lagavulin Posts: 1,688
    ProBikeKit are/were selling Principias.
    2010 Cannondale CAAD 9
    2008 Wilier Izoard
  • MaxwellBygraves
    MaxwellBygraves Posts: 1,353
    The best bike I have ever ridden is made of Aluminium...
    "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Wrt seat position, base your choice on the 73 deg seat angle position...
  • BBH
    BBH Posts: 476
    Cheers nap, makes more sense like that! :D
    2012 Scott Foil 10 (Shimano dura ace) - in progress
    2011 Cervelo S2 (SRAM Red/Force)
    2011 Cannondale Caad 10 (Shimano 105)

    "Hills Hurt, Couches Kill!!"
    Twitter: @MadRoadie
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Its cr*p that aluminium is more hardy. If you are buying a top end aluminium frame the tube walls are incredibly thin to get the weight down. I dented my aluminium frame by just letting it topple over. Plus I don't see people worrying about the fact they then put on carbon forks, which take a hell of a pouding.

    Still ignoring all that I'd say don't dismiss offerings from the likes of Giant, they know a thing or two about making quality aluminium frames.

    Principia were really nice in like 2003, but aluminium has moved on with the advantages of hydroforming etc.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    eh wrote:
    Principia were really nice in like 2003, but aluminium has moved on with the advantages of hydroforming etc.

    Have you seen the new stuff?
  • FransJacques
    FransJacques Posts: 2,148
    tremayne wrote:
    I'd have to say that you probably have it about right with regard to ... ease of repair.
    How exactly is Alu repairable? Of all materials it's actually the least repairable due to heat treatment required. Unless you're talking about cold-setting a tweaked rear triangle.

    Carbon is the most repairable. Anyone can buy a kit with some prepeg, epoxy, and with that and a hairdryer you're back in business.

    Aluminium is throw away. Have you ever heard of or seen a tube cut out of a frame and a new tube TIG'ed in?

    Thought so.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    Rivette supposedly is the new Principia in terms of King of Alu

    http://www.rivette.dk/images/uploads/pa ... -large.jpg
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    otherwise I'd look at Tommassinni for a bit of bling

    http://www.tommasini.com/eng/alluminio3.php

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