Stems

IanT187
IanT187 Posts: 25
edited December 2010 in Road buying advice
I've recently'ish bought a Colnago Ace 56cm. Firstly, I'm really chuffed with the bike. I think the frame fits, but is on the larger size (I'm 6' 1"). Thing is I use the bike a lot for hills and that's exactly what I bought it for, but I measured the stem length today and found that it has a 130mm stem on it! Is this usual for the Colnago Ace? I know a longer stem generally suits hill climbing more and maybe that's why the Ace has got it fitted, but being as I think the frame is already on the larger size for me, then maybe I should try a 110 stem or even a 90mm stem.
What do you guys think and is there anyone out there with a Colnago Ace that can tell me what stem was fitted by default on yours?

Comments

  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,577
    afaik long stems for hill climbing is more of an mtb thing

    on a road bike correct stem length is based on bike fit

    if you are comfortable* riding in the drops, or on the hoods, and from that head position the bars hide the front hub then the length is about right - but this is just a rule of thumb, still might not be correct for you

    if you are not comfortable*, then you need to look at bike set-up, starting with saddle height and position, before looking at bar height/position


    * comfortable - as in body leaning forward, elbows slightly bent, but *not* having to put weight on your arms to hold up your body
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • AndyF16
    AndyF16 Posts: 506
    I've got the exact same bike (lovely aren't they? :wink: ) but bought it in a real half-arsed fashion, read a bit about frame sizing, and just jumped in with both feet not taking account of the different geometry, I'm 5'11" myself

    The first few rides were extremely uncomfortable, so instead of swallowing my pride and asking for advice from an LBS, I totally untechnically deduced that an 80mm stem would cure it all; luckily it did and with a bit of saddle adjustment it's now a wonderful ride :D

    If you find anybody who wants both of our redundant FSA OS-150 130mm stems, get in touch!
    2011 Bianchi D2 Cavaria in celeste (of course!)
    2011 Enigma Echo 57cm in naked Ti
    2009 Orange G2 19" in, erm orange
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    56cm would normally be a little on the small size for someone 6'1. Is there something special about Colnago sizing that makes it 'large' for your size?
  • AndyF16
    AndyF16 Posts: 506
    Apparently there is Pokerface, the 54cm Ace is equivalent to a 56cm frame due to the geometry, wouldn't know myself I just read it; after buying mine :oops:
    2011 Bianchi D2 Cavaria in celeste (of course!)
    2011 Enigma Echo 57cm in naked Ti
    2009 Orange G2 19" in, erm orange
  • IanT187
    IanT187 Posts: 25
    Pokerface wrote:
    56cm would normally be a little on the small size for someone 6'1. Is there something special about Colnago sizing that makes it 'large' for your size?
    Yes the way Colnago measure their bikes is different (basically about 4cm bigger than what would be a usual frame size) so a 56 Colnago is closer to a 60cm Specialised or Trek frame :?
  • IanT187
    IanT187 Posts: 25
    sungod wrote:
    if you are comfortable* riding in the drops, or on the hoods, and from that head position the bars hide the front hub then the length is about right - but this is just a rule of thumb, still might not be correct for you

    Thanks sungod - however what I find is if you put your hands on the hoods then your head is always pretty much in line with the hub because if the stem is longer then your body is stretched further forward etc.
    After going out again this morning and thinking about the stem length, what I find is when I ride on the flat and taking it easy, then I don't naturally put my hands as far forward as the hoods (I hold them about an inch back, which seems natural). However when I'm climbing the hills then I do put my hands properly on the hoods.
    Another rule of thumb I have read is that if you put your elbow at the front of your saddle, then your outstretched finger tips should be about 3cm from the center of the handle bars (mine are more like 7cm!!).
  • IanT187
    IanT187 Posts: 25
    AndyF16 wrote:
    If you find anybody who wants both of our redundant FSA OS-150 130mm stems, get in touch!
    Ha ha.. thanks Andy, I think I will definately try a shorter stem. It seems after going out again today that my natural position is actually about an inch or so shorter than where the handle bars actually are.
    Interesting tho. that the Ace comes with a 130mm stem in the first place - that seems unusually long. If I e-bay my redundant stem and get a lot of offers to buy, then I'll give you a shout and see if we can get rid of both of them :lol:
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    If you are going to try stems then I would recommend either borrowing a few of differing length or buying the cheapest possible off fleabay. Once you know the right one then you can invest in something blingtastic (and resell the "trial" stems back on fleabay). However, it does sound like you need a bikefit and a decent one will try different stems as part of the service. There are quite a few bikefit providers that get recommendations on here. You may well find, like I did, that lots of faffing about with stems can be eventually solved by using the original stem but flipped/dropped. In other words, length is just one aspect of getting it right.

    Cheers.
  • FransJacques
    FransJacques Posts: 2,148
    IanT187 wrote:
    Is this usual for the Colnago Ace? I know a longer stem generally suits hill climbing more and maybe that's why the Ace has got it fitted

    No No No, your are so far off the mark it's untrue. Stem length is NOT about Colnago Aces. It's NOT about hill-climbing. It's about fit, plain and simpe. Yes, stems can get longer as bike frames get larger to keep things in perspective but it's about getting your back as flat as possible while keeping your neck and lower back comfortable. I have a 13cm stem on a 56cm Cervelo and it works for me, it's about finding what works for you.

    Next steps: Why not borrow a 11cm or a 12 cm stem off a buddy and see how it goes?

    But before you do this, there are other things you can do to "cheat", i.e. shorten the distance you find to be too far. They are:
    - rotate the bars upwards a bit
    - move the brake levers upwards on the bars (this will require you to re-tape the bars as well)
    - flip the stem over
    - move the sadde forward on the seatpost

    If you're new to bike positioning I suggest you send 2 side-on pics of yourself on your Colnago, once you've warmed up, one with your cranks arms at 6 o'clock and the other with the crank arm at 3 o'clock and we can give you some more pointers. I'm curious to see how far back your saddle is and what kind of rotation your bars have.

    Lastly, why didn't the LBS do this for you already? Shocking. Do tell us the name of this "bike shop".
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • AndyF16
    AndyF16 Posts: 506
    The previous post reminded me I forgot to say I also flipped my new 80mm stem too -.but as he also says, everyone is different, I'm happiest with a nice relaxed position nowhere near a flat back; I ain't no road racer, and never will be now :lol:
    2011 Bianchi D2 Cavaria in celeste (of course!)
    2011 Enigma Echo 57cm in naked Ti
    2009 Orange G2 19" in, erm orange
  • AndyF16
    AndyF16 Posts: 506
    The previous post reminded me I forgot to say I also flipped my new 80mm stem too -.but as he also says, everyone is different, I'm happiest with a nice relaxed position nowhere near a flat back; I ain't no road racer, and never will be now :lol:
    2011 Bianchi D2 Cavaria in celeste (of course!)
    2011 Enigma Echo 57cm in naked Ti
    2009 Orange G2 19" in, erm orange
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Pokerface wrote:
    56cm would normally be a little on the small size for someone 6'1. Is there something special about Colnago sizing that makes it 'large' for your size?

    Yep, I've just bought a 54cm sloping Colnago and I ride a 58 standard geometry.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The fundamentals of bike positioning / fit is to do the saddle height and layback as this is dictated by leg / femur length. The reach to the bars, including stem length is a combination of frame toptube length, stem length, frame angles, body and arm length and finally rider flexibility - the only way to do this properly is to get an experienced fitter to do it for you. Generally, bigger frames have longer stems which is why the Colnago is fitted with a 13cm. Any decent bike shop should do a sizing/fit with each purchase, including fitting the right length stem, not the one that comes with the bike.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • IanT187
    IanT187 Posts: 25
    FransJacques wrote:
    Next steps: Why not borrow a 11cm or a 12 cm stem off a buddy and see how it goes?
    Good plan, although I don't think I have any buddies with a spare 110 stem :? However I could (as suggested above) but a fleabay stem and try it out before "pimping my ride" with a bling stem :lol: .
    FransJacques wrote:
    But before you do this, there are other things you can do to "cheat", i.e. shorten the distance you find to be too far. They are:
    - rotate the bars upwards a bit
    - move the brake levers upwards on the bars (this will require you to re-tape the bars as well)
    - flip the stem over
    - move the sadde forward on the seatpost
    Good point however if the stem is the wrong length for me (as I suspect it might be) then I'd like to get that right first.
    FransJacques wrote:
    If you're new to bike positioning I suggest you send 2 side-on pics of yourself on your Colnago, once you've warmed up, one with your cranks arms at 6 o'clock and the other with the crank arm at 3 o'clock and we can give you some more pointers. I'm curious to see how far back your saddle is and what kind of rotation your bars have.
    I may well do that - do you mean to have the photo's taken as I'm riding? I guess on a turbo trainer would be OK?
    FransJacques wrote:
    Lastly, why didn't the LBS do this for you already? Shocking. Do tell us the name of this "bike shop".
    I bought the bike on-line. I had my previous bike fitted and I think I know pretty much what feels right for me, however the Colnago does feel different because of the raised head and slightly different geometry, it's not a bad feel, but as I say I think I would prefer just a touch less length.
    I used to do a lot of rowing, but I had to retire because of back injury, I've had an operation to sort it out, but it means I'm not as flexible as I used to be so I generally prefer a more relaxed ride than a head down, flat back etc..
    Thanks anyhow for all your advice :D
  • IanT187
    IanT187 Posts: 25
    OK Well I thought I'd try turning the stem over to see how that felt, but I also took photo's pre and post stem change. Got to say it does feel a lot better already and maybe that's the answer. I'm going to go out tomorrow for a good ride to see how it feels then. These are the pics below, I'd welcome your comments (assuming the comments are about the bike fit and not about finishing the painting of the green wall in my spare bedroom :lol: )

    Stem Downward
    low2.jpg
    low1.jpg

    Stem Upwards
    high1.jpg
    high2.jpg

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