Accident Advice Sticky

LFGSS wrote:

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DONATE YOUR PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERIENCED KNOWLEDGE TO THIS THREAD.
IF YOU ARE A DOCTOR OR LAWYER (paid or gratis) WHO IS WILLING TO HELP RIDER'S PLEASE POST YOUR INFORMATION AND EXPERTISE ON THIS THREAD.


Some of you know that I've been fighting the man getting them to reopen a pretty f*cked up road rage case.
I thought it might be helpful to outline the stuff that the cops etc have told me in my dealings, as much of the problems regarding the case stem from what happened AFTER the accident/crime and not what happened during.

Maybe other people would like to add FACTS here.

BEFORE YOU ARE EVER IN AN ACCIDENT

-Save your local police station number in your phone and know your route in case you have to call your own ambulance or police

IF YOU ARE HIT BY A CAR

- First and foremost get a MINIMUM of TWO independent witnesses. Get their names and phone numbers. Ask them for a business card if possible. If they don't have a card, make small talk, ask what they do for a living or if they live in the neighbourhood. DO NOT just hand that over to the cops. Write the details down separately and give that to the cops.

KEEP DETAILS SAFE.
Why: The cops and crown prosecution rely heavily on witness statements. They are also very good at losing them or 'forgetting to follow up. If the case goes to court, it will likely be up to a year before the trial. That is a very long time to allow the cops to lose stuff. Also, London's a transient city, by the time the case goes to trial one of your witnesses could have easily moved to another country, or moved house, or gotten another number. Having the business card and knowing what they do for a living can be very useful for the cops and you to track them down.

-Take a look around. Write down every CCTV camera you can see. Make a note of whether it's privately owned (banks, night clubs, etc) or whether it's city-owed. On your report, make a list of these.
Why: In our case when I asked if the cops checked CCTV footage, they replied "We weren't told there were any". By that time it was too late for them to be checked.
-[From Regulator:]You should use the Data Protection Act rather than the Freedom of Information Act to apply for CCTV footage. You should make a data subject access request under Section 7(1) of the DPA. The Information Commissioner's Office provide a template for requests. The CCTV Code of Practice outlines an organisation's responsibilities for disclosure in section 19.2 (page 15). Also, you should use the Data Protection Act (not the Freedom of Information Act which does not apply) to access case details from the police. However, the police can withhold information in certain circumstances.
-Please also note that a standard private owned CCTV camera's data is deleted every 30 days. You do not have much time to get a copy of it, neither do the cops. If you are able, go to the private business, bring a blank DVD and explain that you need their help and a copy of you "getting hit by a car", etc..


AT THE SCENE
- Don't just get the registration of the car, try to get the driver's license/home address, etc.

- Don't discuss what happened with the driver. Politely say that you'd rather wait for the cops to sort things out. Make it light but forceful.

-If the driver offers you money on the spot to solve the problem understand that the exchange of money can be looked at as a contract. Don't expect anything else from that point on from the cops or the driver. What you walk away with in your hand is all you should count on.

- If you go to the police station. This is VERY important. Second guess the desk officer regarding whether or not you've been given the right forms.
If you were hit purposefully/with intent/due to gross negligence/through anger or aggression- This is a CRIMINAL offence. You need to be filing on the CRIMINAL Offence form.
If it was a traffic ACCIDENT then you need to be filing a TRAFFIC Offence form.
Why: The forms go to two completely different groups of officers. If a traffic accident is looked at by a criminal cop, they tend to push it aside because they investigate criminal offences, and it won't fulfill their criminal requirements. And vice versa. HOWEVER, station cops may hear "I was hit by a car" and just assume it was a traffic incident. If the driver hit you PURPOSEFULLY it is likely to be a criminal incident and you need to push it to be looked at like this.

- If cops come to the scene, make a note of the "Investigating Officer's" name and badge number. Casually encourage proper note-taking. Point out (as above) whether you believe the incident to be traffic or criminal.
Why: S/he is responsible, more than anyone else, for whether or not your case is handled properly. Befriend them.

- If you report the incident at a station, you will have to fill out TWO different sets of very similar forms. The first time at the station and the second time about 6 weeks later. This 2nd set is what the cops send out to you and what they send to the CP. This 2nd set is VERY IMPORTANT. The Crown Prosecution is who decides whether or not a case is going to go to court and what the correct charges will be. Treat this 2nd form as if you've never told your story before. Get out those business cards, rewrite the witness information, and the list of CCTV cameras. Include the investigating officer by name and badge number to show you are to be taken seriously. Include anything of importance that s/he said at the time, anything the witnesses said to you, and anything the driver did afterwards.

- Remember! The driver could have a very different story than you do. This is where the strength of your case relies strongly on your witnesses.

- If there was damages to your property be thankful! This is the only way you can take a driver to civil court (if need be). This is also the only likely way you will get help from lawyers. It sucks, but money/property talks. Injustice doesn't mean a whole lot. Make notes of each part of your bike that was damages, supply receipts or store information proving how much it is worth. Take photographs of the damage AND take it to a bike shop and ask them to appraise/explain the damage in writing. Include any time spent off work/lost wages, etc..

- DO NOT RIDE YOUR BICYCLE AWAY FROM THE SCENE!!! If the cops/driver see this they may not understand that it was indeed still damaged. While your down tube is dented and therefore your frame is worthless, they may not understand that you risked it and still rode it home. If the next day you wake up sore from neck to toes they may not understand why the adrenaline you felt when you were hit allowed you to ride a bike.

-TAKE A PHOTO OF THE DRIVER AND OF VARIOUS ANGLES OF THE ACCIDENT - Your phone camera will do. The driver may later say it wasn't him driving.

ARE YOU HURT?
- If you are hurt, don't be a tough guy. Go to the hospital/your GP. Get a letter from them explaining your injuries. While a good case of road rash may not be life-threatening it may make you unable to ride/walk/work properly. This is important to note. If you get a later infection or later bone/muscle problems it will make it trickier to prove.
- If you have adreneline pumping through your veins you may not realize you are injured - go to the hospital.
- If you have a scrapped up knee, you are injured, go to the hospital.
- I have straight forwardly been told by the police to go to the hospital if there is any injury at all. Tell the doctor that you will be taking the case to court and could s/he please take detailed notes.
- I have also been told by the cops to take pictures once the swelling/bruising sets in, in other words when it looks really bad. The cops want to punish people, they need evidence to do this.

-Above all, BE PERSISTENT! Make one day a week, 'call the cops day'. Check in on your case. The cops "stretch the truth" and are lazy/very busy. Don't believe anything they say like "we're working on it" or "we'll call you". You do the leg work. If one officer doesn't help you ask for his/her superior. Call them by their name and be polite.
Don't ask questions like "Could you check into that?" Instead say things like "When you check into that will you call me with a follow up?" Then when they say "Yeah, sure.." Push further (but politely) with statements like "And when can I expect to hear from you?" Remember cops have been drilled/brain washed to work in a 'fill in the boxes, dot the I's sort of way',they rely on a chain of command to know what's right or wrong. So if they are a good cop, reward them. Thank them for their help. Be very nice. Bow down to their wise moves. If they are a bad cop, admonish them, point out that you are not happy with the way they are "serving" you. Ask to speak to a superior. Again politely.
If a cop says they'll have to call somebody else or somebody else is in charge of something, get that person's name and contact information. Call them. Tell them who told you to call them.
If a cop blames you for ANYTHING (i.e. wrong forms, not calling, shouldn't have been riding so fast/without a helmet) remind them that it is not their job to blame the victim but their job to assist them.

DO NOT GET ANGRY/RAISE YOUR VOICE/SWEAR. Cops rely on winding you up. The second you yell or use a swear word they have a legal right not to have to talk to you. Also, psychologically you are undermining their sense of authority which is all they have. This doesn't do you any good. Continue to remind them that they have the "power" to assist you. Not all cops wanted to become police officers for the power trip, some actually, in the back of their brain, honestly wanted to help out society. Appeal to that part of their brain. Put them in your shoes, "I'm sure you can understand why I'm so frustrated", etc.

Keep a folder containing:
reference details (numbers, officer names, etc)
witnesses details
driver's details
photographs of your bike and black eyes
officer names (every one you ever speak to)
dates and times you made phone calls. Write a quick note of what was discussed each time.
Any other places you complained/talked to (see below)


There are people out there who can help.
Road Peace - A non-profit that deals with road-user's rights.
Your MP - They may want to silently watch the case, but they are there to assist you.
Contact Cycle Aid 01772 250871 "Cycle Aid are personal injury solicitors specialising in cycle injury and accident claims. We will act for you on a ‘no win, no fee’ basis giving cutting-edge legal advice to help you make a claim for compensation. We have been involved in many substantial claims involving head injuries, shoulder injuries, spinal injuries, facial injuries, back injuries, knee injuries and other bicycle accident claims"

IF THE COPS ARE ABUSIVE, NEGLIGENT, INCAPABLE OF DOING THEIR JOB:
Look, it's easy to get disheartened and give up when the cops don't help you, but if you don't do something about this you make it hader for the next one of us in your shoes.
Please complain!!
You can do this easily and online. The two complaints commitees are duty-bound to, at least, investigate. Plus it's a record of shittiness done by cops.
To complain go here:
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/
https://secure.met.police.uk/complaints/
If the driver was a "professional" driver complain to their profession's headquarters.
TfL if it's a bus
Public Carriage Office if it's a black cab.
The link to make an online complaint against a black cab is here: https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/contact/pco/taxi.aspx
I have never not gotten a reply from complaining to TfL.

If they are driving a company van/car get the details of their company and complain to the boss.

If you would like to sue in civil court you want to go to this page to start with. You can only sue for money, not emotion or injustice. So for things like a fucked up bike or time off work due to the accident. If you have already accepted an insurance pay out then you may not be eligible to sue so check with a solicitor before accepting any compensation if you think you may like to take the case further.

The case can create precedent. This can be a great thing for future injured and suing cyclists. Their lawyers can point to the case as reference. However, if you lose it can create precedent that makes it harder for other cyclists. This is one of the greatest reasons to follow through on cases that are obvious wrong-doing and why not to follow through on cases that aren't (i.e. he hit me, it was totally his fault but I was drinking for the last 8 hours and there's proof of that). In no way do I want to sound like I'm blaming the victim here, but chances are you will be blamed at some point in the course of the trial so just be ready with your defense (i.e. it doesn't matter what I was wearing or how much I drinking or if I was flirting or if I went home with him, it didn't give him permission........you get the idea. Justice is cold.)

I believe that Statute of Limitations for cases is: **
6 months for Traffic Court
No SoL or One Year for Criminal
no clue about civil

**If you know better can you correct/back up these times?

Something else people don't often realise -- opening a car door so as to injure OR endanger any person is a criminal offence. I recently prosecuted a guy down in Portsmouth who opened his car door without looking, straight into the neck of a passing cyclist, who was in his naval whites, on his way to work. The sailor was extremely lucky, and is still walking, despite the fracture to his neck.
That's a really bad example, but it's an offence to ENDANGER, not just injure, so if someone does something that really takes teh piss, tell the cops. Be prepared for them to tell you it isn't a crime, but cite the following and shock them with knowledge!
Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Regulation 105,
"No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a
vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person."
Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 42 makes contravening the above regulation an offence.



If you are at all injured, call the police and say you are injured. Say that you can't come to the station as you are injured and they need to come to the scene. We are getting A LOT of reports from riders saying police just refuse to come out to accidents. This is the best and sometimes ONLY way to make them come to the scene. You have a right to police assistance.


Stop SMIDSY
Stop ‘Sorry Mate, I Didn’t See You’

Because sometimes sorry just isn’t enough.
Bad driving intimidates and harms innocent people. Cyclists and pedestrians are particularly endangered by negligent or aggressive driving because we’re not encased in a few tonnes of metal every time we set out on the roads.
Stop SMIDSY will address how the police, prosecutors, the courts, and the law itself could all do a better job at encouraging people to use the roads in safer and more considerate ways. When we lobby these institutions on your behalf, we need evidence of how they need to improve. That’s where you come in.
Report your story and help make our roads safer

Most of us have experienced bad driving. By creating a place to collect and share these stories, we will build the political will to change how society deals with bad driving.
Get information and advice

If you request help from our lawyers, we will send them the information you have supplied us. They will contact you within seven days if they think they will be able to help.
You can also learn more about the law about bad driving and download some practical tips for dealing with it.
http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/


to sketch an accident:
http://www.springwise.com/life_hacks/accidentsketch/

Pufftmw wrote:

My current wife

Pufftmw wrote:

dhope wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

My current wife

What a strange way to phrase it :?

LOL - its technically true. We are separated but still married. Once that is resolved, there may be a new wife in the future, who knows. She's a still bloody good solicitor though

davis wrote:

Did describing her as your "current wife" precipitate the separation, or follow it? :-)

"Mr_Cellophane wrote:

Not the best quality you want in a soon to be ex-wife

ojeffcott wrote:

If there is interest, I am happy to write a detailed guide on what people should do if they have an accident.