Stuck headset cups

curryfishball
curryfishball Posts: 7
edited September 2010 in MTB workshop & tech
hi

i have been trying to get the headset cups our of my frame. i have the correct tool to do it, but its not budging at all. i have sprayed wd40 in, heated the headstock, but no give at all.

has anyone got any suggestions?

its an alu frame and the cups are hope alloy ones. so i don't think they have corroded into the frame.

i am considering grinding a channel through the cup and hope that would loosen it as a last resort.

thanks
alan

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    careful how much heat you put into the headstock. Don't want to be messing with the alloy's heat treatment.

    What kind of headset tool do you have? Is it worth taking it to a local bike shop - they usually have some pretty fierce tools, and should be able to pop it out for you in a matter of seconds.

    It's things like headsets that I will never bother buying the tools for, since the LBS does such a good, quick job of it, and for very little money.
  • curryfishball
    curryfishball Posts: 7
    i have one of those pipe things that have a few splits down the bottom, slide it up and use a mallet at the top.

    will pop it down to the shop and see if they have any luck with it.

    dont think the heat gun gets that much heat into the alloy, prob aound 150 degrees. thats enough to affect the heat treatment thing?

    thanks
  • W00DENT0P
    W00DENT0P Posts: 211
    A LBS isn't gonna have any super tool to remove it, they'll just have the same tool you have really, maybe a bearing puller / slide hammer that'll fit, not gonna be any easier than using the propper tool tho.
    Just try soaking it with plenty of release oil, maybe get hold of some freeze spray to cool the cups after you've heated the headtube up, might help a bit ??
    Last resort as you've said, cut a slot in the cups.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    150 degrees could potentially cause some harm - if the alloy's reaching that temperature.
    Remember as well, that if the headset cups and the frame are made of the same material, heating it won't help much, since they'll both expand at similar rates.
    In a worst case scenario, the headset cups might actually expand more than the frame.
  • curryfishball
    curryfishball Posts: 7
    wouldnt the welding get a lot hotter than 150 though?

    will soak it over night and have another go in the morning. arrgggg, thought it was going to be an easy job

    thanks
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    the welding gets a hell of a lot hotter than 150 yes, but they're heat treated afterwards, to remove the stresses of welding, among other things.
    You don't have to take the material all the way up to heat treating temperatures to do some permanent changes.
  • curryfishball
    curryfishball Posts: 7
    ah, lets hope i did not get it that hot then. or that i have accidentally strengthened it more! :D
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    it is very unlikely to strengthen it, localised heat is the reason they have to be heat treated!
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    What about clamping the cups in a vice and giving it some twisting force to losen them?

    I've never tried this btw - just an idea
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  • Salsa
    Salsa Posts: 753
    I'd just hit the tool harder, nothing can really go wrong if your using the correct tool so just really smack it one.
  • tptvmbircn
    tptvmbircn Posts: 782
    Salsa wrote:
    I'd just hit the tool harder, nothing can really go wrong if your using the correct tool so just really smack it one.

    yep agree, but i broke my special tool like that so resorted to an old seatpost which i find better, give that a try and a whack! good luck!
  • curryfishball
    curryfishball Posts: 7
    unfortunately i don't have a bench and a vice, would love to try that.

    have been hitting it the whole afternoon. bit worried what a bike shop would try and do though if i am struggling so hard with it. lets hope the penetration oil helps tonight
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    you need a bigger hammer.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • redvee
    redvee Posts: 11,922
    nicklouse wrote:
    you need a bigger hammer.

    Or bigger muscles :lol:
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    If brute force doesn't work...
    Uncompromising extremist
  • richg1979
    richg1979 Posts: 1,087
    make sure the frame is on somthing solid when your nocking them out, the later hope cups are tight as f**k
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    But also don't do what my mate did and rest the frame on the workbench then try and bash out the headset when it had nowhere to go :lol:
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Louis84
    Louis84 Posts: 135
    Northwind wrote:
    If brute force doesn't work...

    .....go to the pub?
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    If no vice try a work mate..

    If no work mate try two bits of stud partition wood (less than 2 quid a plank) and bolt them together each side of the frame cup (as close together as you can). Then tighten and twist, tighten and twist until they move.

    two bits of wood and a couple of m10 bolts
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  • DTW
    DTW Posts: 82
    W00DENT0P wrote:
    maybe get hold of some freeze spray to cool the cups after you've heated the headtube up, might help a bit ??
    .

    Bad idea that. Force cooling a metal will make it brittle. Always always let hot metal cool on its on accord.
    If it aint broke, dont fix it. Wait, there's 1 exception...unless it can be pimped up in anyway.
  • curryfishball
    curryfishball Posts: 7
    thanks guys. finally got it out. can't believe how tight it was. had to carefully dremel the inside of the cup down to nothing, drill a couple of holes on the lip to stick a screw driver through and twist it out. it was in so tight, i don't think any of the hammering techniques would have worked.

    even the bearings were very tight. the new ones i have just fall out the cup.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    not had one that will not come out with a hammer yet.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Mine is looking this way too :(.

    There's just no hint of them moving at all. I'm starting to think this is some integrated affair and non removable, yet the cups are stamped FSA and the frame is GT and they look to me definitely standard removable cups, and everything I've read seems to indicate they are.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    a good tool and a big hammer.

    if you dont have either then LBS time.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Big hammer yes. The good tool not yet.

    Trying the tap round with a flat bladed screwdriver bodge method to walk it out (as per the Bike Radar maintenance manual :D). Tried heavy wacks, soft taps. Tried using old seat post and various other things. It's not that it's coming out at a dodgy angle and getting stuck, it's just not moving at all.

    I'm not convinced a cup remover tool will move it at all either, but can get the IceToolz one for £12, so may order that. Might not be "good" though but looks much the same as any other. LBS would probably charge me at least that and use the same kind of tool anyway, plus I need the time to get to an LBS which I don't have.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    see other post.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Right. Same problem as the OP. Got the proper tool for it and whacking it real hard. Not moving. I'm just creating dings on the lip of the cup inside. I don't think and LBS will get it off any better. It's looking like hacksaw/drill/flame or whatever !

    Or, this really is some weird integrated thing. Really doesn't look like it though. FSA cups, GT frame, looks absolutely like standard cups to me.

    :(
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Okay, scrap that. Got them out!!

    Just required changing to gorilla mode and one hell of a lot of massive hits. There are a lot shards of metal about which is worrying, but hopefully that's from the headset cups.

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