Valverde: "A ban would be huge injustice"

andyp
andyp Posts: 10,103
edited April 2010 in Pro race
Read it and weep.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3905/ ... tions.aspx

I didn't hear him protesting when other Puertoistas were banned. What makes him different, apart from being Spanish?

Comments

  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    Interesting interview.

    You rarely hear about the psychological/mental impact of an impending ban on a rider. You almost feel bad for him.

    Of course, he never fully explains why the ban would be an injustice, or why there is a DNA match.

    I like this rider, but it is time for him to go.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    He can't really say anything else.

    Even he does get banned it would be an injustice in the sense that practically every other Spanish rider has got off. Well known riders with mysterious codenames, like "AC" and "LL", were working with Fuentes but they've not felt the heat at all.

    Still, Valverde could clear everything up with a DNA sample, he could publish his profile online. The fact that he's falling back on lawyers and procedural matters suggests he's playing/paying for time. The sooner CAS rules the better.
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    Not to revisit OP (I've done that numerous times), but the notes about "AC" and "LL" are not the same has having a bag of EPO soaked blood with your name (or dog) on it.

    AC and LL have not felt the heat because the evidence is not as tangible.

    For a dishonest rider, Valverde is being pretty honest about the black cloud over his head. You don't see/read that very often.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Quite Bakunin, but some have got off when others haven't. Rather than having an open investigation, we've had a lock-down. I'm just wary Valverde is becoming some sort of scapegoat for what was a systemic problem within several teams. The real villain here is Spanish cycling.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,103
    Bakunin wrote:
    Not to revisit OP (I've done that numerous times), but the notes about "AC" and "LL" are not the same has having a bag of EPO soaked blood with your name (or dog) on it.

    AC and LL have not felt the heat because the evidence is not as tangible.

    We don't know that for sure though do we? Have all the blood samples seized as part of Puerto been DNA matched? What is certain is that the team manager of both AC and LL was involved in a team wide doping program and the subsequent cover up by the Spanish authorities has seen any Spanish riders implicated escape investigation.
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    I hear you and agree.

    Many questions...
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    Doping in cycling is a complete lottery, so there are injustices aplenty.
    This isn't the case with Don Ale. DNA matched and yet he's still with a PT team, winning big races and making top dollar.
    Most of the other Spaniards may have avoided a ban, but had to take a major drop down the pecking order to do so.
    As for the non-Spaniards.........
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I like the way he floats the idea of a one year ban - despite saying it would be a complete injustice - has a one year ban been suggested by any of the relevant authorities or is this something that has come from Valverde ? He's one of my favourite riders for his style of riding but it has to be a full 2 years surely even if he has been banned in Italy for some time.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    If the UCI had shown stronger leadership earlier - like 15 years earlier - we wouldn't have this weeping sore of Puerto. The Spanish Federation needs a kick in the knackers, tiny team at the Worlds for example, Vuelta not sanctioned etc.

    Valverde is an arse, because he doesn't address the facts of the case, and instead treats his team, his team mates, his competitors, his sponsors, the race organisers, the TV companies and the public as utter idiots. For this he deserves no sympathy. He's making an idiot of everyone and money for himself.
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    Well, is it the UCI or Valverde?

    Seems like he is doing what he is allowed to do. He is moving forward until the shoe drops.

    Are we going to demand that pro cyclists should be moral agents as well?

    That would be too difficult.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Both.

    Couldn't care less about his morals, he could be upto all sorts of an evening for all I care. But that isn't at issue here. What is at issue is his inability to be straight with anyone flying in the face of the established facts.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    http://cyclocosm.com/2010/04/a-tale-of-two-podiums/


    Cyclocosm's usually got it right.

    Is no different here.

    I'm sure Ianf72 will enjoy his comments comparing Ricco to Basso. :wink:
    _
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    Both.

    Couldn't care less about his morals, he could be upto all sorts of an evening for all I care. But that isn't at issue here. What is at issue is his inability to be straight with anyone flying in the face of the established facts.

    Yeah, sounds like morals...
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

    Valverde is an ars*, because he doesn't address the facts of the case, and instead treats his team, his team mates, his competitors, his sponsors, the race organisers, the TV companies and the public as utter idiots. For this he deserves no sympathy. He's making an idiot of everyone and money for himself.

    I must have missed something. How did he make a idiot out of EVERYONE? I don't feel like an idiot. Do you? No one I know has said to me " D*mn, I'm really p*ssed, that guy made an idiot of me". Now I realize that wasn't what you meant, but then again what do you mean by "making a idiot of everyone"? Why does a guy like Valverde, who is obviously embroiled in an unpleasant situation(for him), make you and I idiots? To be honest I'm going to feel pretty good about myself no matter how many twists and turns this thing
    goes through. It's interesting until it gets boring, and it will get boring. Or am I SUPPOSED to be outraged???
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    dennisn wrote:
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

    Valverde is an ars*, because he doesn't address the facts of the case, and instead treats his team, his team mates, his competitors, his sponsors, the race organisers, the TV companies and the public as utter idiots. For this he deserves no sympathy. He's making an idiot of everyone and money for himself.

    I must have missed something. How did he make a idiot out of EVERYONE? I don't feel like an idiot. Do you? No one I know has said to me " D*mn, I'm really p*ssed, that guy made an idiot of me". Now I realize that wasn't what you meant, but then again what do you mean by "making a idiot of everyone"? Why does a guy like Valverde, who is obviously embroiled in an unpleasant situation(for him), make you and I idiots? To be honest I'm going to feel pretty good about myself no matter how many twists and turns this thing
    goes through. It's interesting until it gets boring, and it will get boring. Or am I SUPPOSED to be outraged???


    You don't need Valverde to make an idiot of you you. You got that one covered all by yourself. :lol::lol::lol:
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    dennisn wrote:
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

    Valverde is an ars*, because he doesn't address the facts of the case, and instead treats his team, his team mates, his competitors, his sponsors, the race organisers, the TV companies and the public as utter idiots. For this he deserves no sympathy. He's making an idiot of everyone and money for himself.

    I must have missed something. How did he make a idiot out of EVERYONE? I don't feel like an idiot. Do you? No one I know has said to me " D*mn, I'm really p*ssed, that guy made an idiot of me". Now I realize that wasn't what you meant, but then again what do you mean by "making a idiot of everyone"? Why does a guy like Valverde, who is obviously embroiled in an unpleasant situation(for him), make you and I idiots? To be honest I'm going to feel pretty good about myself no matter how many twists and turns this thing
    goes through. It's interesting until it gets boring, and it will get boring. Or am I SUPPOSED to be outraged???

    Maybe skavanagh meant everyone involved?

    Or that Valverde is TAKING everyone for idiots.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    johnfinch wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

    Valverde is an ars*, because he doesn't address the facts of the case, and instead treats his team, his team mates, his competitors, his sponsors, the race organisers, the TV companies and the public as utter idiots. For this he deserves no sympathy. He's making an idiot of everyone and money for himself.

    I must have missed something. How did he make a idiot out of EVERYONE? I don't feel like an idiot. Do you? No one I know has said to me " D*mn, I'm really p*ssed, that guy made an idiot of me". Now I realize that wasn't what you meant, but then again what do you mean by "making a idiot of everyone"? Why does a guy like Valverde, who is obviously embroiled in an unpleasant situation(for him), make you and I idiots? To be honest I'm going to feel pretty good about myself no matter how many twists and turns this thing
    goes through. It's interesting until it gets boring, and it will get boring. Or am I SUPPOSED to be outraged???

    Maybe skavanagh meant everyone involved?

    Or that Valverde is TAKING everyone for idiots.


    I still don't follow how anyone else involved is an idiot simply because they know him or are on his team. My teammate or next door neighbor commits a crime. Does that make me an idiot?
    I also doubt that Valverde is taking everyone for idiots. He's just trying to get out of the bad situation he's found himself in. Whatever it takes, just like most of us would do.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    dennisn wrote:
    I still don't follow how anyone else involved is an idiot simply because they know him or are on his team. My teammate or next door neighbor commits a crime. Does that make me an idiot?
    I also doubt that Valverde is taking everyone for idiots. He's just trying to get out of the bad situation he's found himself in. Whatever it takes, just like most of us would do.

    No, it doesn't make you an idiot, but I don't think the OP really meant it in that way - more like he's making a fool of cycling authorities, race organisers, his team etc, given the ridiculous situation where he's banned from racing in one country yet competing for grand tours and monuments in others. Anyway, I'm speculating on somebody else's words. Maybe Skavanagh can clarify what he meant?

    I agree with you on the second point - Valverde's just trying to protect himself, and faced with what is (I assume) very strong evidence, there is just no convincing case he can make.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Rick Chasey wrote:

    I'm sure Ianf72 will enjoy his comments comparing Ricco to Basso. :wink:

    Yeah, I read it.

    In the new CN podcast the guys talk a bit about Trentino and all the dodgy characters. They mention the only one of they think is different is Basso.

    Steephill.tv pointed out how rubbish Sella is without juice.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    What's the guy meant to do? Of course, it would be nice for him to fess up, spill the beans on the whole bloody mess that is OP, but it's not going to happen. Instead, he's taken his bans and sanctions which is all you can really ask. Personally, I don't like the way the authorities have handled it, but I don't think we can blame Valv for this.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,103
    I'm sorry, are you saying we can't blame him for breaking the rules and cheating? I'd beg to differ.
  • samb01
    samb01 Posts: 130
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    http://cyclocosm.com/2010/04/a-tale-of-two-podiums/


    Cyclocosm's usually got it right.
    Nah.

    For instance: "At some point in their careers, Basso, Ricco, and even Vino’ (who does look awful beefy for a guy racing a Grand Tour in two weeks…) were riding exceptionally well despite not taking any drugs".

    How would he know? According to for instance Pineau, Ricco has been a blatant doper since he was a junior.

    Also, when someone talks about 'fickle fans' they're usually confused by the fact that different sets of people will express different opinions on the same issue at different times.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    andyp wrote:
    I'm sorry, are you saying we can't blame him for breaking the rules and cheating? I'd beg to differ.

    No, I'm saying we cant blame his for the subsequent mess that OP became, the lack of proper bans and sanctions.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    andyp wrote:
    Read it and weep.

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3905/ ... tions.aspx

    I didn't hear him protesting when other Puertoistas were banned. What makes him different, apart from being Spanish?

    given Valv might think everyone else was juiced, somewhere in his deluded mind that is what he really believes?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    johnfinch wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    I still don't follow how anyone else involved is an idiot simply because they know him or are on his team. My teammate or next door neighbor commits a crime. Does that make me an idiot?
    I also doubt that Valverde is taking everyone for idiots. He's just trying to get out of the bad situation he's found himself in. Whatever it takes, just like most of us would do.

    No, it doesn't make you an idiot, but I don't think the OP really meant it in that way - more like he's making a fool of cycling authorities, race organisers, his team etc, given the ridiculous situation where he's banned from racing in one country yet competing for grand tours and monuments in others. Anyway, I'm speculating on somebody else's words. Maybe Skavanagh can clarify what he meant?

    I just don't follow how he is MAKING fools of cycling authorites, organizers, his team.
    How have they been made fools of? In what way? They haven't done anything wrong, so to speak. Valverde is the one in hot water and looking like a bit of a fool trying to get out of the mess he's in. Sure, all this might give the team a black eye, some of his teammates will probably be disappointed with him, the sponsors may leave, but none of them are idiots or fools. It's only Skavanagh who says they are and I have no clue as to why he thinks that, unless, for whatever reason, he feels he's been made out a fool, but that doesn't make sense.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    To quote Charlie Brown: "Good grief!". There isn't anything for him to deny or evade. He-has-a-bag-of-blood-in-madrid-proven-via-DNA-evidence-that-it-his-blood-this-makes-him-caught-with-his-hand-in-the-cookie-jar. His response?!!!!!!!!! Come on.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    To quote Charlie Brown: "Good grief!". There isn't anything for him to deny or evade. He-has-a-bag-of-blood-in-madrid-proven-via-DNA-evidence-that-it-his-blood-this-makes-him-caught-with-his-hand-in-the-cookie-jar. His response?!!!!!!!!! Come on.

    O.K.and so he has been caught. He makes a responce. How does that make a fool or idiot out of you and I? I can only guess that you must feel you've been made a fool of by this guy, but can't for the life of me figure out why YOU would feel that way.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Okay, he's taking us for fools then.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Injustice indeed.
    I'm sure Ivan Basso would wholeheartedly agree...

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