48 miles into half century, and I completely bonked today

JimmyK
JimmyK Posts: 712
edited April 2010 in Training, fitness and health
dont know about the weather on your side of the pond, but in n.ireland today , the wind was blowing rightly . i headed out on the ards - belfast - carrickfergus - belfast - ards loop which is exactly 50 miles in distance. it was one of those swirling type winds that seemed to be right in your face no matter which direction you were travelling.

before heading out , i had a big bowl of clusters cereal , 2 rounds of burgen soya-linseed low GI bread lathered in raspberry jam and a banana. i braved the annoying wind and set about finishing the ride, but at the 48 mile point , it was like somebody hitting a switch and i had nothing left. crossing the 50 mile point was truly a trundle along the road and a bit of an anti-climax to be honest.

i thought i had eaten enough for a half century, but the sudden having nothing left caught me by surprise. i had some dried dates in my pocket for nibbling on but they taste wretched and i soon gave up on that idea.

what should i have done differently to ensure the bonk never occurred on this ride ?
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Comments

  • Garz
    Garz Posts: 1,155
    I went on a 50 loop today and can vouch for the annoying wind for some sections (around lancashire so is i guess linear to your neck of NI) of the ride.

    I wouldn't eat so much before the ride and snack small amounts as you go along. I started with just porridge and honey, then ate some flapjack around 20 and 30 miles. I top myself up all the time drinking some powdered sports drink that you can make with water which gave me tons of energy all the way doing the last third which is where most people tend to bonk out.

    To avoid bonking you should eat in advance (i.e. before tiredness takes effect) as solids take around 20 mins to get absorbed which is usually where it goes wrong if taken too late.
  • JimmyK
    JimmyK Posts: 712
    Garz wrote:
    I went on a 50 loop today and can vouch for the annoying wind for some sections (around lancashire so is i guess linear to your neck of NI) of the ride.

    I wouldn't eat so much before the ride and snack small amounts as you go along. I started with just porridge and honey, then ate some flapjack around 20 and 30 miles. I top myself up all the time drinking some powdered sports drink that you can make with water which gave me tons of energy all the way doing the last third which is where most people tend to bonk out.

    To avoid bonking you should eat in advance (i.e. before tiredness takes effect) as solids take around 20 mins to get absorbed which is usually where it goes wrong if taken too late.


    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.
  • robmurr2000
    robmurr2000 Posts: 166
    For any ride over an hour or so,I have 1 bottle of water and 1 bottle with High5 electrolyte fructose drink,usually only drink the water for the first 30 miles.Also like Garz mentioned eat as I go,this works fine for me.
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    bin the dried dates and take haribo or jelly babies next time :twisted:
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • JimmyK
    JimmyK Posts: 712
    acidstrato wrote:
    bin the dried dates :

    rotten arent they
  • smithy1.0
    smithy1.0 Posts: 439
    My guess is you woke up the morning of the ride already fairly glycogen depleted. What did you eat the night before? If your glycogen stores are already low, it doesn't matter what you eat for breakfast - by that time it's too late to replenish your stores. If you had full glycogen you'd be able to do that ride on an empty stomach and just a few nibbles along the way.
    XC/RR'ing + Training Blog
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    edited March 2010
    JimmyK wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    bin the dried dates :

    rotten arent they

    was that a pun? :D

    they are horrid, I cant eat them personally. I dont tend to take anything other than 500ml water with me for rides under 2hrs. I find I dont need any more. when I go out for 3-4hrs I take 2 bottles, water and an energy drink. I'll also take a banana and perhaps something chocolatey. 70+miles and I stock up my pockets :D

    but its important not to go out on an empty stomach, what you had seems alright to me. Maybe the wind took more out of you than you realised
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    You don't talk about hydration so what did you take with you, and what did you drink prior to the ride? You shouldn't really be bonking after 48 miles tbh. Not unless you are riding flat out.

    I did a hilly 60 today and the weather wasn't great. It was dry but very windy and I managed an 18 average on my own, with a decent breakfast of porridge, a banana and about 500ml of orange juice and water. All taken on about an hour prior to the ride. I ate a small banana after about 1.5 hours and that was it. 2 x 750ml with a diluted hi-5 in one with Elete hydration drops, and a blackcurrent and water mix in the other.

    I'd eaten pretty well the day before with plenty of carbs and a bit of protein.

    On a full tank of glycogen you have around 1.5 to 2 hours worth of energy, so if you're taking on a carb drink as well you should really be wll covered for 48 miles.
  • Garz
    Garz Posts: 1,155
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    I currently using lucozade tubs that you can source from a local tesco or asda for approx £4-5.

    You can also get it in SiS and other brands, or even as some guys on here make their own with glucose/multodextrin or whatever stuff you want to mix.
  • craker
    craker Posts: 1,739
    sampras38 wrote:
    You shouldn't really be bonking after 48 miles tbh. Not unless you are riding flat out.

    Awww c'mon. Depends on loads of things; I've bonked on less than that in my time.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    mr_si wrote:
    sampras38' wrote:
    You shouldn't really be bonking after 48 miles tbh. Not unless you are riding flat out.

    Awww c'mon. Depends on loads of things; I've bonked on less than that in my time.

    Are you referring to running out of glycogen stores, or just being tired or not being fit enough? Bonking is when you run out of stores, which I'm sure you know.
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    mr_si wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    You shouldn't really be bonking after 48 miles tbh. Not unless you are riding flat out.

    Awww c'mon. Depends on loads of things; I've bonked on less than that in my time.

    +1
    You shouldn't, but it can happen in the right (wrong!) circumstances. I also agree with smithy1.0- I reckon the foundations for a good bonk are laid before the day of your ride.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    MrChuck wrote:
    mr_si wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    You shouldn't really be bonking after 48 miles tbh. Not unless you are riding flat out.

    Awww c'mon. Depends on loads of things; I've bonked on less than that in my time.

    +1
    You shouldn't, but it can happen in the right (wrong!) circumstances. I also agree with smithy1.0- I reckon the foundations for a good bonk are laid before the day of your ride.

    That's why I asked him what he'd eaten/drank the day before. I'm also leaning towards the fact he may not have taken enough fluids on board, whether it was the day before, or during. I don't think I've ridden with plain water for years, and if he'd not taken on enough carbs the day before/morning of the ride to add to the problem, it doesn't suprise me he struggled.

    I'm a firm believer in adequate hydration and a lot of riders are more concerned with what they are eating and forget about taking on the right liquids too. Hydration, or rather dehyration can cause bonk too.
  • Crimmey
    Crimmey Posts: 207
    What people tend to do in heavy winds is to keep a gear as if it wasn't windy and grind their way through it as if you are going uphill for the whole ride, using up your energy stores quicker. I also think too much emphasis,recently, is being placed on ride nutrition for the reasons/helping bonking when training more often/longer and higher cadence is a more likely solution. There isn't a quick nutrition fix that will keep you going.
    I've been there and suffered but now don't need to eat anything before or during a 100mile ride just a very sugary drink to keep blood sugar level up or I see red spots :). I stuff myself the night before though and you'll be shocked how little I drink during a ride which I am trying to rectify.
    Blog http://crimmey.blogspot.com/
    Strava http://app.strava.com/athletes/198938
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Crimmey wrote:
    What people tend to do in heavy winds is to keep a gear as if it wasn't windy and grind their way through it as if you are going uphill for the whole ride, using up your energy stores quicker. I also think too much emphasis,recently, is being placed on ride nutrition for the reasons/helping bonking when training more often/longer and higher cadence is a more likely solution. There isn't a quick nutrition fix that will keep you going.
    I've been there and suffered but now don't need to eat anything before or during a 100mile ride just a very sugary drink to keep blood sugar level up or I see red spots :). I stuff myself the night before though and you'll be shocked how little I drink during a ride which I am trying to rectify.

    Come on...you can't be serious?

    Another one of these old school nutters who swear by the most ridiculous methods.

    Any decent cyclist will tell you you need to take on regular food for a 100 mile ride. Your glycogen stores will be deleted after 2 hours tops, regardless of whether you've eaten well the day, or days before, so you need to replace them.

    How quick are you doing these 100 mile rides, out of interest?

    and sugar alone isn't going to be sufficient.
  • JimmyK
    JimmyK Posts: 712
    my all time best for that 50 mile loop was 19.2mph average , the wind on saturday meant a similar performance level was not on the cards at all.

    does anybody else use the powdered lucozade previously referred to ?
  • Rapha
    Rapha Posts: 86
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    You can eat as much as you like beforehand but your body only has so much carbohydrates stored in the body, when that runs out you hit the wall. To make sure that doesn't happen to you, use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever). Personally I use High5. You can check out how to use their products best at www.highfive.co.uk and also make sure you read their Race Faster Guides - they are not just about racing faster but also how you can use the products to get through a ride stronger.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    You can eat as much as you like beforehand but your body only has so much carbohydrates stored in the body, when that runs out you hit the wall. To make sure that doesn't happen to you, use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever). Personally I use High5. You can check out how to use their products best at www.highfive.co.uk and also make sure you read their Race Faster Guides - they are not just about racing faster but also how you can use the products to get through a ride stronger.

    Pretty much what I was trying to say earlier..;-)
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    edited March 2010
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    I seem to recall someone writing about mountain climbing and how there have been many people who have gotten NEAR the summit of Everest and failed to find the energy or desire to continue. His explanation was that it's more mental than physical. Look at triathlete Julie Moss in the Ironman some years ago. She was within yards of the finish line and couldn't do it. Physical or mental, it happens and it can happen to anyone and it did happen to you. Burnout, bonk, blowup, whatever you want to call it I wouldn't let it worry you too much. Sometimes the best laid plans........
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    acidstrato wrote:
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some

    But you don't just use these drinks for carbs. What about replacing electrolytes etc?

    Water won't do that either.
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    yes but who is saying that 1 500ml bottle of engery drink doesnt already supply a sufficient amount. I dont know actual values so dont quote me or nothing. Just saying that perhaps 1 bottle is enough and a 2nd bottle that is just water is suitable. Works fine for me up to 60odd miles. I'm watching from a weight loss pov tho
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some

    But you don't just use these drinks for carbs. What about replacing electrolytes etc?

    Are you saying that you can't get enough in the way of electrolytes by simply eating good food?? Or for that matter that you can't get enough carbs from food and you MUST use some drink mix for both????
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    acidstrato wrote:
    yes but who is saying that 1 500ml bottle of engery drink doesnt already supply a sufficient amount. I dont know actual values so dont quote me or nothing. Just saying that perhaps 1 bottle is enough and a 2nd bottle that is just water is suitable. Works fine for me up to 60odd miles. I'm watching from a weight loss pov tho

    If you have to worry about getting too many calories from energy drinks, my guess is you're probably eating too much.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Just to add. Maybe you didn't completely bonk. You said you made it the final couple of miles, so you had something left.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    dennisn wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some

    But you don't just use these drinks for carbs. What about replacing electrolytes etc?

    Are you saying that you can't get enough in the way of electrolytes by simply eating good food?? Or for that matter that you can't get enough carbs from food and you MUST use some drink mix for both????

    No I am not saying that, otherwise how the hell did riders manage before energy drinks existed. Give me some credit. All I was doing was responding to the original poster.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    sampras38 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some

    But you don't just use these drinks for carbs. What about replacing electrolytes etc?

    Are you saying that you can't get enough in the way of electrolytes by simply eating good food?? Or for that matter that you can't get enough carbs from food and you MUST use some drink mix for both????

    No I am not saying that, otherwise how the hell did riders manage before energy drinks existed. Give me some credit. All I was doing was responding to the original poster.

    Easy now big fella.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    dennisn wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    Rapha wrote:
    JimmyK wrote:
    what is this powdered drink you refer to ? I brought out 2 x 750ml bottles of water with me today.

    use energy drinks instead of water (water has no substance to it whatsoever)

    perhaps this statement should come with a health warning. Energy drinks are high cal drinks while water has no calories. Therefore use energy drinks to prevent bonking, but if you dont need to then theres not much point taking 2 with you as your just filling yourself with extra carbs and costing money using supps when you dont require it.

    Water still rehydrates you which makes it vitally important

    I'm only saying this incase its not required, not that its not required for some

    But you don't just use these drinks for carbs. What about replacing electrolytes etc?

    Are you saying that you can't get enough in the way of electrolytes by simply eating good food?? Or for that matter that you can't get enough carbs from food and you MUST use some drink mix for both????

    No I am not saying that, otherwise how the hell did riders manage before energy drinks existed. Give me some credit. All I was doing was responding to the original poster.

    Easy now big fella.

    8)
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    yes but who is saying that 1 500ml bottle of engery drink doesnt already supply a sufficient amount. I dont know actual values so dont quote me or nothing. Just saying that perhaps 1 bottle is enough and a 2nd bottle that is just water is suitable. Works fine for me up to 60odd miles. I'm watching from a weight loss pov tho

    If you have to worry about getting too many calories from energy drinks, my guess is you're probably eating too much.

    Or drinking too much in the way of energy drinks. I only say that because I'm a big believer in real food, not sugary drinks and candy bars under the guise of food.
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    sampras38 wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    yes but who is saying that 1 500ml bottle of engery drink doesnt already supply a sufficient amount. I dont know actual values so dont quote me or nothing. Just saying that perhaps 1 bottle is enough and a 2nd bottle that is just water is suitable. Works fine for me up to 60odd miles. I'm watching from a weight loss pov tho

    If you have to worry about getting too many calories from energy drinks, my guess is you're probably eating too much.

    i probably do but I'm still losing weight so i dont really give 2 fucks what I eat, not that it has anything to do with what we were talking about, I mentioned weightloss because wheres the point consuming an extra drink that might not be required. Put a 50mile ride into perspective, 3hrs on average? 2.5 if flat..I dont know at what rate electrolytes are lost through sweat but 2.5-3hrs cycling is not enough for me to warrant the requirement for 2 energy drinks.

    as i posted previously, 50mile ride i'll take an energy drink, a banana and maybe small chocolate bar( not always) and that gets me through no problems
    Crafted in Italy apparantly

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